PBS高端访谈:新冠疫苗要在零下90度配送（在线收听）

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: For more perspective on this news, I'm joined now by Miles O'Brien, our science correspondent. He has been covering the hunt for a vaccine throughout this pandemic. Miles, great to have you back on the NewsHour. Can you help us understand the substance of today's announcement? This was still initially -- we haven't seen the data, correct?

威廉·班厄姆：为了获取更多关于这则新闻的观点，现在我们来连线科学记者迈尔斯·奥布莱恩，它一直在全程追踪新冠疫苗的研究工作。迈尔斯，很高兴和你连线。您能跟我们说说今天公告的内容吗？还是最开始的数据……我们还没有看到数据，对吧？

MILES O'BRIEN: Yes. We should do a little bit of trust, but verifying in this one. This is a press release. We're waiting for the independent review. The peer-reviewed science work is still unknown to us. But, assuming all of this bears out, this is an extraordinary number. This is a vaccine that will easily get into the Hall of Fame batting .900 percent, 90 percent. It's stunning, actually. When you think about it, the typical flu vaccine, its efficacy is somewhere between 40 and 60 percent. But there's still a lot of work to do here, obviously. We're talking, in all, of 94 cases among tens of thousands, 94 cases of COVID. And almost all of those individuals received the placebo, a saline solution, not the vaccine, and that's where they get that number. It is a vaccine, however, that is really an unproven thing in humans. It is -- uses a piece of genetic code called mRNA. It's a novel approach to making vaccines. And there's never been a vaccine brought to the human market that uses this particular technique. Here's an encouraging part of this, though, William. If all this bears out, all of the vaccines that are out there right now are going after the spiky surface of the coronavirus, the spike protein, including this one. So, if this was so incredibly effective, that bodes well for the other trials that we're looking at right now. Back in March, which seems like an eternity ago, before we had a lot of mask requirements, I spoke with Neil King. He's a biochemist at the University of Washington's Institute for Protein Design. And he walked me through this process of identifying a vaccine in this manner.

迈尔斯·奥布莱恩：我们应该多点儿信任，但要验证一下。这是一份新闻稿。我们在等待独立审查。同行评议的科学工作对我们来说仍然是未知的。但是，假设所有这些都成立，这是一个非常大的数字。这是一种很容易进入名人堂的疫苗，900%，90%的打击率，很高了，说实话。你想想，比较典型的流感疫苗，它的功效会在40%到60%之间。但显然还有很多工作要做。我们说的是，在成千上万的病例中，共有94例，94例新冠感染者。几乎所有这些人都接受了安慰剂，一种盐水，而不是疫苗，这就是他们得到这个数字的原因。然而，这是一种疫苗，还没有在人类身上得到验证。它使用了一段叫做“信使核糖核酸”的遗传密码，一种制作疫苗的新方法。目前还没有一种使用这种技术的疫苗进入人类市场。威廉，有一个鼓舞人心的消息。如果这一切都是真的，那么现在所有的疫苗都是针对冠状病毒的尖状表面，这种纤突蛋白，包括这个。所以，如果它真的那么地有效，这对我们正在研究的其他试验来说是一个好兆头。再回到三月份，感觉过去了很久似的，在我们对口罩有很多要求之前，我采访了尼尔·金。他是华盛顿大学蛋白质设计研究所的生物化学家。他向我介绍了用这种方法鉴定疫苗的过程。

NEIL KING, University of Washington: Figure out how to present this molecule to the immune system in the right way, so that you get the right response. And, really, for the spike protein, what that means is, which part of this do you want to hit with an antibody to shut the virus down? And then how can we shine a light on that to the immune system?

尼尔·金，华盛顿大学：弄清楚如何以正确的方式将这种分子呈现给免疫系统，这样你就能得到正确的回应。其实，对于纤突蛋白，这意味着，你想用抗体来打击病毒的哪一部分？然后是我们怎样才能让免疫系统明白这一点？

MILES O'BRIEN: So, the spike protein appears to be the key. And that really does bode well for all the other trials, William.

迈尔斯·奥布莱恩：所以，刺突蛋白好像是关键。威廉，这对其他试验来说是个好兆头。

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: So, going forward, you heard Dr. Bourla say that, this year, they think they might be able to get 50 million doses out the door, next year, over a billion. What do we need to do between here and there getting shots into people's arms?

威廉·班厄姆：所以，要向前看。你也听布拉博士说了，他们认为今年他们可能能够制作出5000万剂疫苗，明年会超过10亿剂。那么在人们注射疫苗之前我们还需要做些什么呢？

MILES O'BRIEN: So, William, the devil is in the logistics as much as anything. But let's walk you through it. Over the next few weeks, they are going to try to get a little more data on the safety of this vaccine. And then they will submit a process and approval for emergency use authorization for the Food and Drug Administration. Obviously, the FDA knows this is coming, so that should happen fairly quickly. But then, when you start thinking about distributing millions, up to a billion doses, this particular vaccine likes it cold, really cold. It needs to be transported at minus 90-degrees Fahrenheit. That is colder than some of its competitors on the vaccine front. And so that's creating a problem with what is called cold chain logistics. UPS is one of the big ones. They showed us a raft of freezers that they have geared up in order to try to deliver this vaccine without it getting spoiled. Pfizer, meanwhile, has come up with its own shipment scheme, a little box that has some dry ice in it. And, hopefully, they will be able to get these vaccines to people without them being spoiled. Hopefully, they will manage. But that hasn't been tried.

迈尔斯·奥布莱恩：所以，威廉，后勤和其他任何事情一样很难搞，我们一起来看一下。在接下来的几个星期里，他们将试图获得更多关于这种疫苗安全性的数据。然后他们会向食品和药物管理局提交紧急使用许可的程序和批准。很显然，FDA知道这件事快了，所以等不了多久了。但是，当你开始考虑分配百万、甚至10亿剂的疫苗时，这种特殊的疫苗喜欢寒冷，越冷越好，它需要在零下90华氏度的温度下进行运输，它比前线竞争的很多其它疫苗都更喜欢冷，这就出现了所谓的冷链物流的问题。UPS就是其中一家大公司。他们向我们展示了大量的冰柜，冰柜是他们提前备好的，以防疫苗在运输过程中发生变质。并且，辉瑞公司也提出了自己的运输计划——用装有干冰的小盒子。希望他们能够在疫苗不变质的情况下将疫苗成功配送到人们手中，希望他们能够成功，不过这种运输方式还没有前人试验过。

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Let's say they do get authorization to distribute these. Pfizer is not the one who decides who gets those precious first doses, right? Who decides that?

威廉·班厄姆：假设他们真的获得了授权来配送这些疫苗，但是决定谁可以获得这些珍贵的一手药物的公司并不是辉瑞公司，对吧？那么是谁来决定的？

MILES O'BRIEN: The federal government will make the decision, ultimately. And there are all kinds of review panels that are trying to make specific decisions about the order of business, as it were. But everyone agrees that front-line health care workers should be right at the head of the queue, and then, of course, the elderly and other people with preexisting conditions which might be adversely affected by the coronavirus more than others. The government has already signed on with Pfizer for $2 billion to buy 100 million doses. But you have to remember Pfizer and many of the others, except for Johnson & Johnson's vaccine, require a booster. So, it's actually two shots, one, and then, a couple of weeks later, a second shot. So, getting people in for the first shot in a country where we have a lot of people who are suspicious of vaccines, that's one thing, and then making sure they come back for the second shot, all those things have to happen in order for this to work.

迈尔斯·奥布莱恩：最终将由联邦政府做出决定。可以说，有各种各样试图就商业秩序做出具体决定的审查小组。不过大家都同意一线医护人员应该排在队伍的最前面，当然，还有老年人和其他已经有疾病的人，他们可能比其他人更容易受到冠状病毒的不利影响。政府已经与辉瑞公司签署了20亿美元的协议，购买1亿剂疫苗。但你必须知道是除了强生公司之外的辉瑞和许多其他公司。约翰逊的疫苗需要加强剂量，所以其实是要注射两次，先注射一剂，两周后再注射第二剂。所以，在一个很多人对疫苗持怀疑态度的国家让人们去接种第一次疫苗是一回事，然后还要确保他们回来接种第二次疫苗，只要这样疫苗才能有效。

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: All right, Miles O'Brien, thank you so much for helping us wade through all of this.

威廉·班厄姆：没错，迈尔斯·奥布莱恩，非常感谢您帮助我们度过了这一切。

MILES O'BRIEN: You're welcome, William.

迈尔斯·奥布莱恩：不客气，威廉。