美国国家公共电台 NPR 特朗普支持者游行爆发冲突 4人被刺伤多人被捕（在线收听）

There were clashes with police, arrests and at least four stabbings yesterday as supporters of President Trump held a MAGA march here in Washington, D.C. The crowds were smaller, but the message stayed the same — a defiant rejection of Joe Biden as the next president based on debunked accounts of election fraud. NPR's Hannah Allam was at the rally, and she is here with us now. Good morning.

昨天，特朗普总统的支持者在华盛顿特区举行“让美国再次伟大”（简称MAGA）游行时，与警方发生冲突，至少4人被刺伤，多人遭逮捕。游行规模较小，但传达的信息保持不变——基于存在选举舞弊这一被揭穿的说法，公然反对乔·拜登成为下一任美国总统。NPR新闻的汉娜·阿拉姆当时在集会现场，现在她将和我们连线。早上好。

HANNAH ALLAM, BYLINE: Hi. Good morning.

汉娜·阿拉姆连线：你好。早上好。

GARCIA-NAVARRO: By now, states have certified their election results. Courts have weighed in, and there's simply no evidence of significant voter fraud. What's left for Trump supporters to say with these rallies?

加西亚-纳瓦罗：到目前为止，各州已经证明了他们的选举结果。法院也表态称，根本没有证据证明存在重大选举舞弊行为。特朗普的支持者在这些集会上还何可说？

ALLAM: Well, they definitely want to keep up the pressure and keep alive the stop-the-steal narrative, this baseless idea that the election was rigged. But it's also about much more than that. It's a networking and recruiting opportunity for the right-wing groups that always show up to events like this. And while some say they'll never accept Biden as president, the reality is setting in for others now that, you know, their guy will indeed have to leave the White House. So several speakers were talking about looking ahead, organizing around some of their other pet issues, the Second Amendment, rejecting a coronavirus vaccine, keeping, quote-unquote, "the socialists at bay." So it's just a rich soup of conspiracy and disinformation that doesn't go away when Trump leaves.

阿拉姆：他们肯定想继续施加压力，让“阻止偷窃”的说法继续存在，即选举被操纵这一毫无根据的想法。但不仅如此。对于那些总是出现在这种活动上的右翼团体来说，这也是交流和招募的机会。虽然有人说他们永远不会接受拜登当总统，但对其他人来说，现实是他们支持的人真的要离开白宫了。因此，多位演讲者在讲话中展望未来，提及他们最喜欢的问题——第二修正案，拒绝冠状病毒疫苗，“阻止社会主义者”。因此，这充斥着阴谋和造谣，而且在特朗普离开后也不会消失。

And then for a smaller fringe, there was a much more overtly violent tone than the last March, not only in the chanting and the slogans but in actual violence and beatings. I witnessed late last night after the rally some really chilling scenes. And so, yeah, the most militant right-wing activists have said quite clearly now that they won't be settling for marching in the streets and that they're ready to fight.

虽然规模较小，但相比去年三月，公然的暴力基调更多，不仅是在高呼和口号中，实际的暴力和殴打事件也在增加。昨天深夜，我在集会结束后目睹了一些触目惊心的场景。最激进的右翼活动人士已经明确表示，他们不会满足于在街上游行，他们已经准备好战斗。

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Even before the rally began, one extremist group made headlines. The leader of the Proud Boys, Enrique Tarrio, visited the White House early Saturday. The Proud Boys, of course, are known as a violent gang. Some extremism trackers call them a hate group. Trump famously told them during a debate to stand back and stand by. So what, may I ask, was the leader of the Proud Boys doing at the White House?

加西亚-纳瓦罗：甚至在集会开始之前，一个极端组织已经登上了头条新闻。周六早些时候，“骄傲男孩”组织的领袖恩里克·塔里奥拜访了白宫。当然，“骄傲男孩”组织被称为暴力团伙。一些极端主义追踪者称他们为仇恨组织。特朗普在辩论中曾对该组织说，“稍安勿躁，做好准备”。我想问一下，“骄傲男孩”的领袖在白宫做了什么？

ALLAM: Yeah, that's still a bit of a mystery. The White House has said Tarrio was not specifically invited, that he was part of a public tour. But that's just not exactly how it works for the general public. I saw Enrique Tarrio at the rally and asked him directly about the visit. He told me he was there, quote, "as just a guest." He said he didn't see or meet with the president. He didn't get into specifics, though. I also asked what it meant for the Proud Boys to have that kind of access. And he said it shows they've come a long way, as he put it. And he says they're using their platform to push for election reforms, for example, a federal voting card. Here's Tarrio.

阿拉姆：这仍是个谜。白宫曾表示，塔里奥并没有受到特别邀请，他参加的是公众参观。但普通民众参加的公众参观并非如此。我在集会上见到了恩里克·塔里奥，于是直接询问了他这次访问的情况。他告诉我他“只是作为客人”前往白宫。他说他没有见到或会见总统。不过，他没有透露具体细节。我还问了这种访问对“骄傲男孩”意味着什么。他说，这表明他们已经“取得了很多成就”。他还表示，他们正在用自己的平台推动选举改革，比如联邦投票卡改革。以下是塔里奥所说。

ENRIQUE TARRIO: If not, for the next four years, this is all you're going to see. When Biden preaches a message of unity, he has listen to us, too.

恩里克·塔里奥：如果不这样做，在接下来的四年里，你看到的将只有这些。当拜登宣扬团结的信息时，他也要倾听我们的声音。

ALLAM: So the problem with Tarrio talking like he's moderate, who's interested in Biden's message of unity, is that you can't say that by day and then unleash your members at night to roam the streets harassing and beating up anyone you perceive as a leftist. And that's exactly what I and many others recorded the Proud Boys doing last night.

阿拉姆：塔里奥说话像个温和派，他对拜登的团结信息很感兴趣，但问题是你不能在白天这样说，却在晚上让成员在街上游荡，骚扰和殴打任何你们认为是左派的人。这就是我和其他许多人记录下的“骄傲男孩”昨晚所做的事情。

GARCIA-NAVARRO: What are the national security implications of the ideologies we saw swirling around yesterday at this big public rally?

加西亚-纳瓦罗：我们昨天在这个大型公众集会上看到的意识形态对国家安全有何影响？

ALLAM: Well, for many years now, according to the FBI, the violent far-right has been the deadliest and most active domestic terrorism threat. But these ideologies and groups were mainly confined to the fringe. Now we see the leader of the Proud Boys getting a tour of the White House. Later the same day, I saw his members corner and beat two young Black men. The member — Proud Boys were filmed ripping a Black Lives Matter banner off a historic Black church in D.C. As you noted, there were stabbings and arrests. So, yeah, the mainstreaming of extremist groups is a hallmark of the Trump era. And analysts say it's going to be a heavy lift for the Biden administration to reverse that and to prevent political violence from snowballing.

阿拉姆：根据联邦调查局的数据，多年来，暴力的极右翼一直是美国国内最致命和最活跃的恐怖主义威胁。但这些意识形态和群体主要局限于边缘。我们看到“骄傲男孩”的领袖参观了白宫。同一天晚些时候，我看到他的成员将两名年轻黑人逼入死角并殴打了他们。“骄傲男孩”被拍到在哥伦比亚特区一座历史悠久的黑人教堂上撕下写有“黑人的命也是命”的横幅。如你所说，有人被刺伤，有人被逮捕。因此，极端组织的主流化是特朗普时代的标志。分析人士表示，扭转这一局面并防止政治暴力像滚雪球般发展，对拜登政府来说是艰巨的任务。

GARCIA-NAVARRO: That's NPR's Hannah Allam. Thank you very much.

加西亚-纳瓦罗：以上是NPR新闻的汉娜·阿拉姆带来的报道。非常谢谢你。

ALLAM: Thank you, Lulu.

阿拉姆：谢谢你，露露。