美国国家公共电台 NPR 荷兰多地爆发大规模反封锁抗议（在线收听）

A new curfew in the Netherlands was supposed to slow the spread of COVID-19, but it ended up setting off the worst civil unrest in four decades there. In a small southern city, protesters looted a supermarket. And in Amsterdam, rioters threw fireworks at police officers.

荷兰实施新的宵禁措施原本是为了减缓新冠肺炎的传播，但最终却引发了40年来最严重的内乱。在南部一座小城市，抗议者抢劫了一家超市。而在阿姆斯特丹，暴徒向警察投掷烟花。

Bloomberg News journalist Joost Akkermans has been covering the unrest from Amsterdam, and he joins us this morning. Thanks for being here.

彭博新闻社记者约斯特·阿克曼斯一直在报道阿姆斯特丹的骚乱，他今天上午将和我们连线。谢谢你。

JOOST AKKERMANS: Good morning.

约斯特·阿克曼斯：早上好。

MARTIN: What happened last night? I mean, just what can you tell us at this point?

马丁：昨晚发生了什么事？目前你能介绍哪些情况？

AKKERMANS: Well, we've had some unrest ever since the curfew started on Saturday evening from 9 p.m. It's a nighttime curfew, obviously, and we've had unrest for the — for every night since then. But I have to say that last night was the calmest since. We've had over a hundred arrests, which is way fewer than we had in previous days.

阿克曼斯：自从周六晚上9点开始实施宵禁以来，荷兰就一直有骚乱发生。很明显，这是夜间宵禁，而自宵禁实施以来，每晚都有骚乱发生。但我要说，昨晚是自那以来最平静的一晚。昨天逮捕了一百多人，逮捕人数比前几天少了很多。

MARTIN: So as we've noted, this has been happening since Saturday night. Can you just explain what is animating these protests? It's about the COVID restrictions, but what specifically?

马丁：我们注意到，骚乱始于周六晚上。你能解释一下是什么激发了这些抗议活动吗？这与新冠肺炎的限制措施有关，但具体原因是什么？

AKKERMANS: Well, if I'm reading local reports — because this has been happening all over the country and I've not been physically there because of COVID...

阿克曼斯：我在浏览当地的报道，因为荷兰全国各地都发生了骚乱，而我因为新冠肺炎没能亲自去现场……

MARTIN: Sure.

马丁：当然。

AKKERMANS: ...I think we have to distinguish two very distinct groups within the protest. Part of the group — for example, we saw this on Sunday here in Amsterdam near the Van Gogh Museum and the Rijksmuseum in the center of town. There are people protesting who believe that the government is infringing on their personal freedom, and they're protesting that. And obviously the curfew on top of the lockdown — this country has been in lockdown since mid-October. The curfew is sort of added to that. And some people are protesting that particular bit.

阿克曼斯：我认为我们必须区分抗议活动中两个截然不同的群体。其中一部人周日在阿姆斯特丹的梵高博物馆和市中心的国立博物馆附近进行了抗议。一些人抗议的原因是，他们认为政府侵犯了他们的人身自由。显然，这是在实行封锁措施的同时实施宵禁，荷兰自去年10月中旬以来一直处于封锁状态。宵禁是额外增加的措施。因此，一些人对此表示抗议。

The second group — and this is a very varied group and very confusing because it's unclear who these people exactly are. But it's clear from reports and also social media clips on video that some people are basically doing this just to incite violence and riot, smash shop windows, et cetera.

另一个群体，这是一个截然不同的一个群体，该群体令人困惑，因为我们不清楚这些人到底是谁。但从媒体报道和社交媒体上的视频片段可以清楚地看到，有些人进行抗议只是为了煽动暴力和暴乱，他们会砸碎商店橱窗等。

MARTIN: With no other motive, just for the sake of violence?

马丁：没有其他动机，只是为了暴力？

AKKERMANS: That is what officials are now trying to determine. It's clear that officials here — the government officials, but also legal authorities want to stamp down on this, which may in part have been the reason that last night was a bit more quiet than previous evenings because police was out in major force across the country. But that's what they're trying to determine. And then once they've determined why they're doing it, more importantly, try to recoup the damages, for example, for shopkeepers, bus stops that were smashed, et cetera.

阿克曼斯：这正是官员正在努力确定的事情。显然，荷兰政府官员以及法律部门都希望对此予以镇压，这可能是昨晚比前几个晚上要安静一些的部分原因，因为全国各地的警察都出动了。但这正是他们在努力确定的事情。他们要确定抗议原因，更重要的是，要尽力赔偿损失，比如，店主的损失，被砸的公交车站等等。

MARTIN: So I understand there's an election in the Netherlands coming up in March. Can you explain the political element of all of this, if there is one?

马丁：我知道荷兰将在三月份举行选举。如果有政治因素的话，你能解释一下政治因素为何吗？

AKKERMANS: That is indeed the big question — what and if this will have an impact on the elections that are due on March 17, which is St. Patrick's Day, I now remember. The government in the Netherlands fell earlier this month. I won't go into details about the why, but that basically means that Prime Minister Mark Rutte has a caretaker government, not taking on board any new big legislation. But of course, COVID-19 is still high on his agenda and also with the approval of Parliament, but it now will be the main question on how this will impact the campaign.

阿克曼斯：这确实是一个重要问题——这是否会对定于3月17日圣帕特里克节举行的选举产生影响，会产生何种影响。荷兰政府在本月早些时候垮台。我不会详细说明原因，但这基本上意味着首相马克·吕特领导的是看守政府，不参与任何新的重大立法。当然，新冠肺炎仍是其议事日程上的重点，这也得到了议会的批准，但现在的主要问题是，这将如何影响竞选活动。

And it's already clear, listening to Mark Rutte, who on Monday called the protesters idiots — and the finance minister a day later called the protesters scum. An opposition leader has called for the army to be deployed. It's clear that the election campaign is playing a role in this. What the impact on the seats in Parliament will be, we'll have to wait and see.

马克·吕特周一明确表示，抗议者是白痴，而财政部长在一天后称抗议者为人渣。一名反对派领袖要求部署军队。很明显，竞选活动在其中发挥了作用。至于这会如何影响议会席位，我们只能拭目以待。

MARTIN: OK. We'll keep posted on it. Joost Akkermans, Amsterdam bureau chief for Bloomberg. Thank you.

马丁：好。我们会及时更新最新情况。以上是彭博社驻阿姆斯特丹分社社长约斯特·阿克曼斯带来的报道。非常感谢你。

AKKERMANS: My pleasure.

阿克曼斯：不客气。