美国国家公共电台 NPR 拜登普京高调会晤 美俄分歧依旧（在线收听）

President Biden is back at the White House this morning after his high-profile summit with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

拜登总统在与俄罗斯总统弗拉基米尔·普京举行高调会晤后，已于今天上午回到白宫。

The two presidents agreed to keep talking about arms control.

两位总统同意继续讨论军备控制问题。

Putin said he thinks the two can find common ground there and in some other areas.

普京表示，他认为双方可以在该领域和其他领域找到共同点。

Biden said the meeting was not that much togetherness, but he was pleased.

拜登表示，这次会晤没有那么团结，但他很高兴。

It was important to meet in person so there can be no mistake about or misrepresentations about what I wanted to communicate. I did what I came to do.

拜登总统：面对面会谈很重要，这样我想交流的内容就不会有错误或误报。我做了我要做的事情。

Joining me now to discuss is White House correspondent Tamara Keith. Good morning, Tam.

现在我们将白宫记者白宫记者塔玛拉·基思一起进行讨论。早上好，塔姆。

Good morning.

早上好。

So what did President Biden get out of this summit?

拜登总统从这次峰会中得到了什么？

As he said, he did what he came to do, which is that he came to say what he wanted to say.

正如他所说，他做了他要做的事情，也就是他说了他想说的话。

That meant raising human rights concerns and pressing Putin on his treatment of political opposition.

这指提出人们对人权问题的担忧，并追问普京对待政治反对派的态度。

And it meant raising recent hacks and ransomware attacks attributed to cybercriminals in Russia

拜登还提出，俄罗斯网络犯罪分子最近发动了黑客攻击和勒索软件攻击，

that have affected a major pipeline, a major meat supplier and other entities in the U.S.

这些黑客袭击对美国一条主要管道、一家主要肉类供应商和其他实体造成了影响。

So when you say Biden raised these cyberattacks, what was said, and what was agreed on?

拜登提出这些网络攻击问题时，双方谈论了什么，在哪些方面达成一致？

The U.S. is looking to see whether Russia will take action against those criminals. And it's definitely a wait-and-see.

美国经观察一下俄罗斯是否会对这些罪犯采取行动。目前肯定是观望状态。

President Biden said he gave President Putin a list of 16 areas of critical infrastructure.

拜登总统表示，他向普京总统提出了一份包含16个关键基础设施领域的清单。

Let's be clear — these are not state secrets. They are on a U.S. government website.

我们要说明一下，这些不是国家机密。这份清单可以美国政府网站上查到。

But he said that these 16 areas should be off-limits to cyberattacks, including energy and water.

但拜登表示，这16个领域应该禁止网络攻击，其中包括能源和水系统。

And as a way of hinting at a possible U.S. response if these things aren't off-limits, he made the case that it was in both of their self-interests to agree to this.

拜登表示，这种做法符合双方自身的利益，以此来暗示如果这些领域不禁止攻击，那美国可能会做出回应。

For example, when I talked about the pipeline that cyber hit for 5 million — that ransomware hit in the United States, I looked at him.

比如，在我谈到美国一条管道因遭遇勒索软件攻击而支付了500万美元赎金时，我看着他。

I said, how would you feel if ransomware took on the pipelines from your oil fields? He said it would matter.

我说，如果勒索软件攻击了你们的油田管道，你会有何感觉？他说这很重要。

It was sort of a, that's a nice pipeline you have there; would be a shame if something happened to it.

这就像是在说，你那里有条很好的管道；如果发生了什么事，那就太可惜了。

He said that they agreed to begin some diplomatic conversations around cybersecurity, but he also had a fairly heavy dose of skepticism.

他表示，他们同意开始一些关于网络安全的外交对话，但他也持相当大的怀疑态度。

And he said he'd have to wait to see three to six months from now whether anything changed.

他说他必须等到3到6个月后才能看到有何变化。

So how about Putin? What was his main message?

那普京呢？他传达的主要信息是什么？

Putin called the conversations constructive and said there was no hostility.

普京称对话具有建设性，并表示没有敌意。

He talked about continuing talks in certain areas, including arms control and cybersecurity.

他谈到双方会在某些领域继续进行会谈，包括军备控制和网络安全。

But he also denied any Russian culpability for cyberattacks or election meddling.

但他同时否认了俄罗斯对网络攻击或选举干预负有责任。

And when asked about his mistreatment of opposition leader Alexei Navalny, he brought up the January 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol,

而当被问及他虐待反对派领袖阿列克谢·纳瓦尔尼的问题时，他提到了美国国会大厦1月6日发生的暴动，

seemingly sympathizing with the rioters and arguing they were just people expressing a political opposition.

他似乎支持暴动者，并辩称他们只是表达政治反对意见的人。

Wow. So given the depth and breadth of tensions with Moscow —

哇哦。塔姆，鉴于美国与俄罗斯紧张关系的深度和广度，

and Tam, you just gave a long list of all the things Putin's denying — did Biden walk out of this meeting with any more trust in Putin?

你刚刚列出了普京否认的所有事情，那拜登在结束会谈时，对普京的信任有增加吗？

You know, he was asked several variations on this question,

他被问到了多个与此相关的不同问题，

especially since Biden's press conference came right after Putin's, where the Russian leader made all of these denials.

特别是拜登的记者会在普京的记者会之后召开，俄罗斯领导人在记者会上对所有指责予以了否认。

And Biden said it is not a matter of trusting Russia.

拜登表示，这不是信不信任俄罗斯的问题。

This is not about trust. This is about self-interest and verification of self-interest.

这与信任无关。而是关乎自我利益和自我利益的验证。

Biden even lashed out at a reporter who asked why he was confident Putin would change his behavior.

拜登甚至抨击了一位记者，因为该记者问他为何相信普京会改变他的行为。

Biden said he never claimed confidence, though he did later apologize to the reporter.

拜登表示，他从未声称他对此有信心，不过后来他向那名记者道了歉。

So anything else you're watching with this relationship going forward?

就未来两国的关系而言，你还有需要关注的事情吗？

Yeah, I'll be watching to see if there's any progress on releasing two U.S. citizens who've been detained in Russia, former U.S. Marines Paul Whalen and Trevor Reed.

有，我要关注释放两名被关押在俄罗斯的美国公民一事是否有进展，这两人是前美国海军陆战队队员保罗·沃伦和特雷弗·里德。

Biden said he raised the issue, but there was no outcome from that.

拜登表示，他提出了这个问题，但没有商讨出结果。

NPR's Tamara Keith, thanks.

以上是NPR新闻的塔玛拉·基思带来的报道，谢谢。

You're welcome.

不用客气。