华盛顿邮报 ICE驱逐非法移民使用暴力?（在线收听）

For a lot of sheriffs who participated in this program, especially sheriffs who are elected, that this is a big part of what gets them elected, is that people in their communities believe that this program does make them safer.

对于很多参加了这个项目的警长来说，尤其是那些当选的警长，让他们当选的很大一部分原因是因为他们社区的人们相信这个项目确实让他们更安全。

And I'm wondering, what were some of the conversations that you've heard from people who live in places that have this program in place, that they say, "We feel really good about having sheriffs with this power to be able to question undocumented immigrants in this way"?

我想知道，你们从那些住在开展这个项目的地方的人们那里听到的一些对话是什么，他们说，“拥有这样权力的警长能够以这种方式质疑无证件移民，我们对此感到非常好”?

What immigration groups and civil-rights lawyers say is that you don't need this particular program to make communities safer if the police and the sheriff's departments are doing their jobs.

移民团体和民权律师说，如果警察和治安部门都在尽职尽责，你就不需要这个特别的项目来让社区更安全。

They are catching criminals anyway and holding criminals anyway and that there doesn't need to be a separate, second legal process for people who are here without legal citizenship, that if we are doing a good job in this country policing our streets, that serious criminals would be picked up anyway.

他们无论如何都在抓罪犯，无论如何都在关押罪犯，对于在这里没有合法公民身份的人来说，不需要单独的第二个法律程序，如果我们这个国家的治安工作做得好，那些严重的罪犯无论如何都会被抓获。

And they also say that this program does not make communities safer. In fact, it's just the opposite.

他们还说，这个项目不会让社区更安全。事实上，恰恰相反。

Because when your local law enforcement are aligned with ICE, the fear is that people in immigrant communities will not report crimes, they will not report domestic violence, they will not go to the hospital when they're injured.

因为当你们当地的执法部门与移民和海关执法局结盟时，人们担心移民社区的人不会报告犯罪，不会报告家庭暴力，他们受伤时不会去医院。

They're fearful of the very people who are supposed to protect them, and that actually creates unsafe communities.

他们惧怕那些本该保护他们的人，这实际上造就了一个不安全的社区。

So then, what does ICE have to say about some of these concerns that are raised that this program can cause a more dangerous situation, especially for undocumented immigrants, and that there are questionable practices or instances of potential abuse?

人们提出了一些担忧：这个项目可能会导致更危险的情况，尤其是对无证移民来说，以及这个项目存在可疑的做法或潜在的虐待行为? 那么，移民和海关执法局对这些提出的担忧有什么要说的吗?

ICE stands by this program. I spoke to ICE for the reporting of this story, so I spoke to ICE under the Biden administration.

移民和海关执法局支持这个项目。我就这个故事的报道与移民和海关执法局进行了交谈，在拜登执政期间，我与移民和海关执法局进行了交谈。

ICE says there is no tolerance for discriminatory policing or racial profiling, and that they will remove sheriff partners who they believe are doing that.

移民和海关执法局表示，对歧视性警务或种族定性是不可容忍的，他们将罢免他们认为正在这样做的警长伙伴。

But, honestly, in so many years under this program, that has very rarely happened.

但是，老实说，在这个计划的这么多年里，这种情况很少发生。

In fact, in all of 2021, only one sheriff was removed from this program -- his name is Tom Hodgson in Bristol County, Massachusetts, just outside of Boston.

事实上，在2021年全年，只有一名警长从这个项目中除名--他的名字是汤姆·霍奇森，来自马萨诸塞州布里斯托尔县，就在波士顿郊外。

And that was only after Sheriff Hodson's deputies reportedly used excessive force on immigrant detainees in the local detention center.

据报道，仅仅是因为之前霍德森警长的副手对当地拘留中心的移民拘留人员使用了过度的武力。

You know, flashbang grenades and K-9 units and others.

你知道，闪光手榴弹和警犬执法小组等等。

So it was only after this very high-profile use of force in the detention center that the Department of Homeland Security cut ties with that sheriff.

因此，在拘留中心高调使用武力之后，国土安全部才切断了与这名警长的联系。