PBS高端访谈:法国总统积极推进“诺曼底模式”四方会谈（在线收听）

A whirlwind week of diplomacy continued today, as the president of France, Emmanuel Macron, visited the capital of Ukraine, following a lengthy day with Vladimir Putin.

今天，一周应接不暇的外交活动继续进行，法国总统埃马纽埃尔·马克龙访问了乌克兰首都，此前他与弗拉基米尔·普京度过了漫长的一天。

As Nick Schifrin tells us, war in Europe hangs in the balance, but the question remains, is there a path away from a fight over Ukraine?

正如尼克·施福林告诉我们的，欧洲的战争悬而未决，但问题依然存在，是否有办法避免乌克兰战争?

On the second leg of a one-man diplomatic tour, French President Emmanuel Macron received a warm welcome today from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.

法国总统埃马纽埃尔·马克龙今天受到了乌克兰总统弗拉基米尔·泽伦斯基的热烈欢迎，这是他个人外交之行的第二站。

And, in a joint press conference, Macron said there was still time for diplomacy.

马克龙在联合新闻发布会上表示，仍有时间进行外交努力。

Our desire for the following weeks and months is for the situation to stabilize and for us to be able to reengage a sustainable de-escalation.

我们在今后几周和几个月的愿望是局势稳定下来，我们能够重新采取可持续的缓和行动。

But on the Ukrainian border, Russia continues to escalate, and today deployed more ships toward Ukraine's southern coast.

但在乌克兰边境，俄罗斯继续升级，今天向乌克兰南部海岸部署了更多船只。

Zelensky demanded that Russia send its troops back to barracks, but also said Ukraine wanted to talk.

泽伦斯基要求俄罗斯将军队撤回军营，但也表示乌克兰希望谈判。

The first steps are what Emmanuel mentioned.

第一步是埃马纽埃尔所提的。

We have a platform, the Normandy format.

我们有一个平台，诺曼底模式。

The Normandy format was born in 2014, Ukraine and Russia in the same room with Germany and France.

诺曼底模式诞生于2014年，乌克兰、俄罗斯、德国和法国同处一室。

They negotiated the Minsk agreements, which called for a cease-fire in Donetsk and Luhansk, the breakaway regions in Eastern Ukraine backed by Russia, and find a political solution.

他们通过谈判达成了明斯克协议，该协议要求在顿涅茨克和卢甘斯克停火，并找到政治解决方案。这两个乌克兰东部的分裂地区得到了俄罗斯的支持。

The Minsk agreements require both sides to remove heavy weapons, Russia return control of the international border that separatists control, and Ukraine's Parliament to allow Donetsk and Luhansk -- quote -- "self-government" and reform the constitution to allow -- quote -- "decentralization."

明斯克协议要求双方拆除重型武器，俄罗斯归还分裂分子控制的国际边界的控制权，乌克兰议会允许顿涅茨克和卢甘斯克“自治”，并改革宪法，允许“分权”。

Today, Macron called Minsk the best way forward.

今天，马克龙称明斯克是前进的最佳途径。

The Minsk accords are also the best protection of the territorial integrity of Ukraine.

明斯克协议也是对乌克兰领土完整的最好保护。

Based on the commitment of the two sides, Russian and Ukrainian, we now have the possibility of advancing negotiations.

基于俄罗斯和乌克兰双方的承诺，我们现在有可能推进谈判。

And, yesterday, Putin said Ukraine had no option but to accept Minsk's demands, using crude language.

昨天，普京用粗鲁的语言表示，乌克兰别无选择，只能接受明斯克要求。

Like it or not, you have to suck it up.

不管你喜不喜欢，你都得接受。

But Russia has never removed its weapons or given up its control of the border.

但俄罗斯从未撤走武器，也从未放弃对边境的控制。

And Ukraine's foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, today said handing over autonomy was dead on arrival.

乌克兰外交部长德米特罗·库勒巴今天表示，移交自治一事一到即告失败。

I have repeatedly said we are open for dialogue, but we won't cross our red lines, and no one will make us cross them.

我多次表示，我们对对话持开放态度，但我们不会越过自己的红线，也没有人会强迫我们越过红线。

Macron says he's not trying to make Ukraine do anything, but he has long cultivated a relationship with Putin.

马克龙表示，他并不想让乌克兰做任何事，但他与普京的关系由来已久。

In five years, the two have met dozens of times, including in Versailles, the historic home of French kings.

在过去的五年里，两人已经见过几十次面，包括在法国国王的故居凡尔赛宫。

And, in 2019, he hosted the only meeting between Zelensky and Putin, alongside then-German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

2019年，他主持了泽伦斯基与普京的唯一一次会晤，会晤的还有时任德国总理的安格拉·默克尔。

Last month, Macron, who is running for reelection, said the E.U. should hold its own talks with Russia, rather than rely on U.S./Russia talks to defuse the crisis.

上个月，正在竞选连任的马克龙表示，欧盟应该与俄罗斯举行自己的会谈，而不是依靠美俄会谈来化解危机。

For both us and Russia, for the security of our continent, which is indivisible, we need that dialogue.

为了我们和俄罗斯，为了我们这块不可分割的大陆的安全，我们需要这种对话。

We have to, as Europeans, lay out our own demands and put ourselves in a position where we can make sure they're respected.

作为欧洲人，我们必须提出自己的要求，并将自己置于一个能够确保这些要求得到尊重的位置。

Whether Russia intends to de-escalate and respect demands for diplomacy will be tested again Thursday, when the Normandy format meets in Berlin.

周四，在柏林举行的诺曼底模式会议将再次考验俄罗斯是否打算缓和紧张局势并尊重外交要求。

For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Nick Schifrin.

PBS新闻一小时，我是尼克·施福林。