美国国家公共电台 NPR--Despite help from the U.S., Ukraine says it's outgunned by Russia

Despite help from the U.S., Ukraine says it's outgunned by Russia

Transcript¹

The U.S. is supplying billions of dollars of weapons to Ukraine. Yet getting armament to the battlefield is challenging and Ukraine says it needs even more firepower to fight Russian forces.

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:

The U.S. is supplying billions of dollars' worth of weapons to help Ukraine fight the Russian invasion. Ukraine still says it's outgunned, and Kyiv continues to plead for more. The U.S. is now planning to send long-range rockets, but it will take weeks before they can be used on the battlefield. We're joined this morning by NPR's Tom Bowman, who covers the Pentagon, and Greg Myre, who's reporting from the capital of Ukraine, Kyiv. Good morning to you both.

TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE²: Good morning.

GREG MYRE, BYLINE: Hello, Rachel.

MARTIN: I'm going to start with you, Greg. Are the Ukrainians still at a military disadvantage here?

MYRE: Yes, they absolutely are. The Russians just have much more firepower in the eastern city of Sievierodonetsk, which has really been the focal point of the battle the past few weeks. The Russians have around 90% of the city, and they've just been taking it using very traditional and brutal³ tactics - nonstop, long-range artillery⁴ fire, just pulverizing⁵ the city. The Ukrainians have been putting up a good fight, but they say it's very difficult because they're taking this incoming Russian artillery around the clock and just can't match that firepower. I spoke⁶ about this with Ukraine's military spokesman, Oleksandr Motuzianyk.

OLEKSANDR MOTUZIANYK: (Speaking Ukrainian).

MYRE: So he's saying the Russians have many more men and firepower, particularly in the hot spots. First and foremost, we need long-range artillery, he says. Give us weapons. The rest will be done by our soldiers.

MARTIN: I mean, it sounds like at least some of that's coming, right, Tom? I mean, we noted⁷ the Pentagon is ready to send these long-range rocket systems?

BOWMAN: Yeah, that's right. Well, these long-range artillery systems - four of them will be coming, but not for probably a month or so. That's because training the Ukrainian soldiers on this more sophisticated system comes first. Now, Rachel, these rocket systems have pods that can shoot the rocket anywhere from 40 to 50 miles. And that allows Ukrainians to fire from a safe distance and go after Russian artillery and also rear areas, maybe hitting command-and-control locations, weapons and fuel depots⁸. These rockets are very precise, satellite-guided and can travel more than twice as far as the hundred or so Howitzers the Ukrainians receive from the U.S. Now, the British are also training Ukrainians on long-range rocket systems. They'll provide three of them. And they're desperately⁹ needed, as we've heard, to push back the Russian advance. So you could see these rockets start to make a difference sometime this summer.

MARTIN: So, Greg, I remember talk about how Poland was well-positioned to give fighter jets to Ukraine because they were the Soviet-made jets that Ukrainian pilots already knew how to operate. Can Ukrainians actually use these weapons? I mean, we heard Tom nod to the fact that they do need training. I mean, how much?

MYRE: Yeah, well, the Ukrainians are very tech-savvy, and they've adapted very, very quickly to a number of new weapons systems. Tom just mentioned these Howitzers. They do require a lot of maintenance. With constant use, they can overheat. They need special oil to stay lubricated. And so some of this information and equipment may not be making it to the front lines in every case. Also, we are hearing some reports that some of the instructions for weapons are coming only in English, not in Ukrainian. Soldiers have to use Google Translate or even watch YouTube videos to understand exactly how to use and maintain them. We've heard problems with night-vision goggles¹⁰. Ukrainians were using ordinary batteries when they need lithium batteries. So they're doing very well, but it's just very challenging to get all this information to all the front-line troops.

MARTIN: I mean, Tom, is the Pentagon taking all that into account when it thinks about training?

BOWMAN: Yeah, they are. You know, and the Pentagon is doing that by also speeding up the training in Germany in some of these systems like the rocket artillery I mentioned. It usually takes a number of months. So they've whittled¹¹ down that to three or four weeks, selecting Ukrainians already familiar with artillery, for example. Same with the Howitzers - not only training them how to shoot but, again, maintaining them. So far, they've trained hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers on the Howitzers. And more, of course, will be needed. The challenge here, Rachel, unlike in places like Iraq or Afghanistan - you had U.S. - where you had U.S.-trained - they trained local forces, but they had U.S. trainers or contractors¹² on the ground. You don't have that here. But again, there's an urgency to move as quickly as possible because Russian forces are making some headway in the east. Ukraine's losing a lot of soldiers every day.

MARTIN: Tom, the war's just over a hundred days old. I mean, are there conversations within the Pentagon about how this ends?

BOWMAN: You know, there are discussions privately¹³. And the discussion now is mostly in articles and opinion pieces, some saying Ukraine must be willing to give up some of its territory in a settlement. And I asked Defense¹⁴ Secretary Lloyd Austin about that recently and how it all ends. This is what he said.

LLOYD AUSTIN: I think this is Ukraine's fight. It's not the United States' fight. We are doing everything that we can to make sure that we are supporting them in their effort to defend their sovereign territory. The rest of the international community is doing the same.

BOWMAN: But listen; as this fight goes on for weeks and likely many more months, I think you may see pressure building for Ukraine to accept something short of what they hope for, which is at least preinvasion borders.

MARTIN: And, Greg, I'll give you the last word. What do Ukrainian officials say about the endgame?

MYRE: Well, Ukrainians really aren't ready to talk compromise right now. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says he believes the war will end diplomatically, but he says an agreement will only come after there's been decisive fighting on the battlefield. He also says a deal will have to be approved by a referendum in Ukraine.

MARTIN: NPR's Greg Myre reporting from Kyiv and NPR Pentagon correspondent Tom Bowman. Thanks to you both.

BOWMAN: You're welcome.

MYRE: My pleasure.

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 byline   

n.署名；v.署名

参考例句：

• His byline was absent as well.他的署名也不见了。
• We wish to thank the author of this article which carries no byline.我们要感谢这篇文章的那位没有署名的作者。

3 brutal   

adj.残忍的，野蛮的，不讲理的

参考例句：

• She has to face the brutal reality.她不得不去面对冷酷的现实。
• They're brutal people behind their civilised veneer.他们表面上温文有礼，骨子里却是野蛮残忍。

4 artillery   

n.(军)火炮，大炮；炮兵(部队)

参考例句：

• This is a heavy artillery piece.这是一门重炮。
• The artillery has more firepower than the infantry.炮兵火力比步兵大。

5 pulverizing   

v.将…弄碎( pulverize的现在分词 )；将…弄成粉末或尘埃；摧毁；粉碎

参考例句：

• Marcus had proved his prowess in the ring by pulverizing all challengers. 拳击台上，马科斯彻底击败了所有挑战者，从而证明了他高超的本领。 来自互联网
• Its large caliber enables fast and pulverizing of material. 进料口径大可快速粉碎进料。 来自互联网

6 spoke   

n.（车轮的）辐条；轮辐；破坏某人的计划；阻挠某人的行动 v.讲，谈（speak的过去式）；说；演说；从某种观点来说

参考例句：

• They sourced the spoke nuts from our company.他们的轮辐螺帽是从我们公司获得的。
• The spokes of a wheel are the bars that connect the outer ring to the centre.辐条是轮子上连接外圈与中心的条棒。

7 noted   

adj.著名的，知名的

参考例句：

• The local hotel is noted for its good table.当地的那家酒店以餐食精美而著称。
• Jim is noted for arriving late for work.吉姆上班迟到出了名。

8 depots   

仓库( depot的名词复数 )； 火车站； 车库； 军需库

参考例句：

• Public transportation termini and depots are important infrastructures for a city. 公交场站设施是城市重要的基础设施。
• In the coastal cities are equipped with after-sales service and depots. 在各沿海城市均设有服务部及售后维修站。

9 desperately   

adv.极度渴望地，绝望地，孤注一掷地

参考例句：

• He was desperately seeking a way to see her again.他正拼命想办法再见她一面。
• He longed desperately to be back at home.他非常渴望回家。

10 goggles   

n.护目镜

参考例句：

• Skiers wear goggles to protect their eyes from the sun.滑雪者都戴上护目镜使眼睛不受阳光伤害。
• My swimming goggles keep steaming up so I can't see.我的护目镜一直有水雾，所以我看不见。

11 whittled   

v.切，削（木头），使逐渐变小( whittle的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• He whittled a simple toy from the piece of wood. 他把那块木头削成了一个简易的玩具。
• The government's majority has been whittled down to eight. 政府多数票减少到了八票。

12 contractors   

n.（建筑、监造中的）承包人( contractor的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• We got estimates from three different contractors before accepting the lowest. 我们得到3个承包商的报价后，接受了最低的报价。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Contractors winning construction jobs had to kick back 2 per cent of the contract price to the mafia. 赢得建筑工作的承包商得抽出合同价格的百分之二的回扣给黑手党。 来自《简明英汉词典》

13 privately   

adv.以私人的身份，悄悄地，私下地

参考例句：

• Some ministers admit privately that unemployment could continue to rise.一些部长私下承认失业率可能继续升高。
• The man privately admits that his motive is profits.那人私下承认他的动机是为了牟利。

14 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。