美国国家公共电台 NPR--Former federal prosecutor discusses where DOJ's case against Trump could lead

Former federal prosecutor¹ discusses where DOJ's case against Trump² could lead

Transcript³

NPR's Steve Inskeep talks to former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti about whether the Justice Department's investigation⁴ into former President Trump's handling of documents could lead to charges.

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

Let's turn now to former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti. Welcome back.

RENATO MARIOTTI: Thanks, Steve.

INSKEEP: I want to ask first about that photo. This is something that was discussed on social media. Byron York, a conservative journalist, talked about it. Trump seemed to have picked it up on his own social media feed, complaining that the FBI photos showed secret documents spread out when they seem originally to have been in an unsecured box in Trump's office. Based on your knowledge of investigations⁵, how do you think a photo like that would come about?

MARIOTTI: I think it's pretty standard procedure that when you are searching and obtaining evidence, you will, on the scene, for example, take - spread out and take photographs of the evidence you find. So a lot of our listeners may have seen drug photos like this, right? There's a bunch of cocaine⁶ spread on a table that's photographed. No one thinks that all of the cocaine was just sitting out on the table. But that is what law enforcement does at the scene of the search to document what they found.

INSKEEP: And just to be clear on the law here, as best we understand it, if the documents were just in the box, in the unsecured box in the former president's unsecured office, is he any less guilty?

MARIOTTI: No. In fact, as you mentioned a moment ago, it appears that by - it appears that the former president acknowledged that he knowingly possessed⁸ the documents. And whether he possessed them in a box or on the floor, it doesn't matter.

INSKEEP: Did you get any insight as to why a Trump lawyer would have signed a sworn statement saying that there were no more relevant documents at Mar-a-Lago when there now seemed to have been many?

MARIOTTI: There's no good reason to do so. And I think it's something that no competent and honest lawyer would have done. Obviously, it appears that what was done was there was an effort to mislead and thwart⁹ the Justice Department investigation. I mean, the Justice Department noted¹⁰ in their filing that that same lawyer kept them from going into the room to verify what she was representing in that certification. So it sure looks like an attempt to fool the investigators¹¹, which I think is a main reason why the former president remains¹² under criminal investigation.

INSKEEP: Now, I also have been reading the Trump lawyers' response last night. They contest the DOJ filing. They say, obviously, we have standing¹³ to complain here because it was a search of Trump's home. He has the right to complain about a search of his home. Does that give the Trump - does that give Trump standing, the right to demand an independent monitor, an independent judgment¹⁴ of what was taken?

MARIOTTI: So they have standing to complain. Trump has standing to complain about a search of his residence. But it's too early. It's not at the stage for him to be making Fourth Amendment¹⁵ argument or raising Fourth Amendment concerns. You know, regarding his request for a special master, I don't think the request in and of itself is out of bounds. But it's very bizarre. And it really doesn't appear to have any basis in fact here given the circumstances of this case.

INSKEEP: One other thing I want to ask about. It seems to me that the government has two choices to make here, one they've made. They decided¹⁶ to recover these documents. It seems to me it may be a separate decision whether to indict¹⁷ anybody, particularly a former president. How do you think that through as a prosecutor?

MARIOTTI: Well, great question. I think the starting point is whether or not there's sufficient evidence, OK? If the Justice Department concludes that they don't have sufficient evidence to prove guilt⁷ beyond a reasonable doubt - and I think, in the case of a former president, they would want to be absolutely certain that they could prove guilt. I think that they wouldn't move forward. Assuming that they have those - that evidence, I think they would consider other factors, whether there's a federal interest in the prosecution¹⁸ and, I think, some of the unique issues that come with prosecuting¹⁹ a former president.

INSKEEP: I wonder if you also have to consider, as Gerald Ford²⁰ did with Richard Nixon, the political implications, the trauma²¹ for the country and whether that is worth the prosecution. Is it legitimate²² to think that part through that is explicitly²³ political?

MARIOTTI: Well, I think that the Justice Department is going to make those considerations. I will say, it's so unprecedented²⁴. It's the sort of consideration that is usually foreign to a prosecutor and the sort of thing that isn't considered by prosecutors²⁵.

INSKEEP: Renato Mariotti, former federal prosecutor. Always a pleasure talking with you. Thank you so much.

MARIOTTI: Thank you.

1 prosecutor   

n.起诉人；检察官，公诉人

参考例句：

• The defender argued down the prosecutor at the court.辩护人在法庭上驳倒了起诉人。
• The prosecutor would tear your testimony to pieces.检查官会把你的证言驳得体无完肤。

2 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

3 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

4 investigation   

n.调查，调查研究

参考例句：

• In an investigation,a new fact became known, which told against him.在调查中新发现了一件对他不利的事实。
• He drew the conclusion by building on his own investigation.他根据自己的调查研究作出结论。

5 investigations   

（正式的）调查( investigation的名词复数 )； 侦查； 科学研究； 学术研究

参考例句：

• His investigations were intensive and thorough but revealed nothing. 他进行了深入彻底的调查，但没有发现什么。
• He often sent them out to make investigations. 他常常派他们出去作调查。

6 cocaine   

n.可卡因，古柯碱（用作局部麻醉剂）

参考例句：

• That young man is a cocaine addict.那个年轻人吸食可卡因成瘾。
• Don't have cocaine abusively.不可滥服古柯碱。

7 guilt   

n.犯罪；内疚；过失，罪责

参考例句：

• She tried to cover up her guilt by lying.她企图用谎言掩饰自己的罪行。
• Don't lay a guilt trip on your child about schoolwork.别因为功课责备孩子而使他觉得很内疚。

8 possessed   

adj.疯狂的；拥有的，占有的

参考例句：

• He flew out of the room like a man possessed.他像着了魔似地猛然冲出房门。
• He behaved like someone possessed.他行为举止像是魔怔了。

9 thwart   

v.阻挠，妨碍，反对；adj.横(断的)

参考例句：

• We must thwart his malevolent schemes.我们决不能让他的恶毒阴谋得逞。
• I don't think that will thwart our purposes.我认为那不会使我们的目的受到挫折。

10 noted   

adj.著名的，知名的

参考例句：

• The local hotel is noted for its good table.当地的那家酒店以餐食精美而著称。
• Jim is noted for arriving late for work.吉姆上班迟到出了名。

11 investigators   

n.调查者，审查者( investigator的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• This memo could be the smoking gun that investigators have been looking for. 这份备忘录可能是调查人员一直在寻找的证据。
• The team consisted of six investigators and two secretaries. 这个团队由六个调查人员和两个秘书组成。 来自《简明英汉词典》

12 remains   

n.剩余物，残留物；遗体，遗迹

参考例句：

• He ate the remains of food hungrily.他狼吞虎咽地吃剩余的食物。
• The remains of the meal were fed to the dog.残羹剩饭喂狗了。

13 standing   

n.持续，地位；adj.永久的，不动的，直立的，不流动的

参考例句：

• After the earthquake only a few houses were left standing.地震过后只有几幢房屋还立着。
• They're standing out against any change in the law.他们坚决反对对法律做任何修改。

14 judgment   

n.审判；判断力，识别力，看法，意见

参考例句：

• The chairman flatters himself on his judgment of people.主席自认为他审视人比别人高明。
• He's a man of excellent judgment.他眼力过人。

15 amendment   

n.改正，修正，改善，修正案

参考例句：

• The amendment was rejected by 207 voters to 143.这项修正案以207票对143票被否决。
• The Opposition has tabled an amendment to the bill.反对党已经就该议案提交了一项修正条款。

16 decided   

adj.决定了的，坚决的；明显的，明确的

参考例句：

• This gave them a decided advantage over their opponents.这使他们比对手具有明显的优势。
• There is a decided difference between British and Chinese way of greeting.英国人和中国人打招呼的方式有很明显的区别。

17 indict   

v.起诉，控告，指控

参考例句：

• You can't indict whole people for the crudeness of a few.您不能因少数人的粗暴行为就控诉整个民族。
• I can indict you for abducting high school student.我可以告你诱拐中学生。

18 prosecution   

n.起诉，告发，检举，执行，经营

参考例句：

• The Smiths brought a prosecution against the organizers.史密斯家对组织者们提出起诉。
• He attempts to rebut the assertion made by the prosecution witness.他试图反驳原告方证人所作的断言。

19 prosecuting   

检举、告发某人( prosecute的现在分词 )； 对某人提起公诉； 继续从事（某事物）； 担任控方律师

参考例句：

• The witness was cross-examined by the prosecuting counsel. 证人接受控方律师的盘问。
• Every point made by the prosecuting attorney was telling. 检查官提出的每一点都是有力的。

20 Ford   

n.浅滩，水浅可涉处；v.涉水，涉过

参考例句：

• They were guarding the bridge,so we forded the river.他们驻守在那座桥上，所以我们只能涉水过河。
• If you decide to ford a stream,be extremely careful.如果已决定要涉过小溪，必须极度小心。

21 trauma   

n.外伤，精神创伤

参考例句：

• Counselling is helping him work through this trauma.心理辅导正帮助他面对痛苦。
• The phobia may have its root in a childhood trauma.恐惧症可能源于童年时期的创伤。

22 legitimate   

adj.合法的，合理的，合乎逻辑的；v.使合法

参考例句：

• Sickness is a legitimate reason for asking for leave.生病是请假的一个正当的理由。
• That's a perfectly legitimate fear.怀有这种恐惧完全在情理之中。

23 explicitly   

ad.明确地，显然地

参考例句：

• The plan does not explicitly endorse the private ownership of land. 该计划没有明确地支持土地私有制。
• SARA amended section 113 to provide explicitly for a right to contribution. 《最高基金修正与再授权法案》修正了第123条，清楚地规定了分配权。 来自英汉非文学 - 环境法 - 环境法

24 unprecedented   

adj.无前例的，新奇的

参考例句：

• The air crash caused an unprecedented number of deaths.这次空难的死亡人数是空前的。
• A flood of this sort is really unprecedented.这样大的洪水真是十年九不遇。

25 prosecutors   

检举人( prosecutor的名词复数 )； 告发人； 起诉人； 公诉人

参考例句：

• In some places,public prosecutors are elected rather than appointed. 在有些地方，检察官是经选举而非任命产生的。 来自口语例句
• You've been summoned to the Prosecutors' Office, 2 days later. 你在两天以后被宣到了检察官的办公室。