美国国家公共电台 NPR Dalia Mogahed: How Does Speaking Up Change Minds?

 

GUY RAZ, HOST:

Have you ever experienced hatred¹ or - I mean, have you ever - I don't know. Has anybody ever said something to you because of who you are, because of your faith that has just been so incredibly hurtful?

DALIA MOGAHED: Yes (laughter), all the time.

RAZ: This is Dalia Mogahed. It happens regular...

MOGAHED: Physically² - well, in the virtual world, it happens every single day. But there's also been the physical world where - I mean, a recent incident in a coffee shop where a man just started spewing the most unbelievable - I mean, I can't repeat what he was saying.

RAZ: Just in the middle of a coffee shop? He just - just started to...

MOGAHED: Absolutely. I didn't even know he was talking to me. And then he was looking right at me. And so I was, like, confused. Then I looked at him, and I'm like, sir, excuse me. Are you talking to me? And he said, yes, I'm effing talking to you, you effing X, Y, Z.

RAZ: Wow.

MOGAHED: This is my country, and I'll say what I want. I'm going to say the truth.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

RAZ: Dalia is Muslim, and she wears a hijab - and something that she's done since she was 17.

MOGAHED: And that's still what I wear today. I cover my hair and my body. It is about speaking up, being open, coming out as a Muslim and having pride in that identity and not being afraid for people to know who you are.

RAZ: Today, Dalia is the director of research at the Institute of Social Policy and Understanding.

MOGAHED: It's a think tank that focuses on the American Muslim community.

RAZ: So now - speaking out, it's actually part of her job - to educate, inform and to help others find the voice to stand up for themselves. Here's Dalia Mogahed head on the TED³ stage.

(SOUNDBITE OF TED TALK)

MOGAHED: What do you think when you look at me? A woman of faith, an expert, maybe even a sister. Or oppressed, brainwashed, a terrorist. Or just an airport security line delay. That one's actually true.

(LAUGHTER)

MOGAHED: If some of your perceptions were negative, I don't really blame you. That's just how the media has been portraying⁴ people who look like me. One study found that 80 percent of news coverage⁵ about Islam and Muslims is negative. And studies show that Americans say that most don't know a Muslim. I guess people don't talk to their Uber drivers.

(LAUGHTER)

MOGAHED: Well, for those of you who've never met a Muslim, it's great to meet you.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

RAZ: I wonder - I mean, you obviously - you know, you are - you've spoken on stages, and you've talked about discrimination and about Islamophobia. And when did you decide that you had to speak out? When did you decide that, I can't just be silent - I've got to do something?

MOGAHED: You know, I was very active in this area in college, and I kind of went into hibernation⁶. I graduated. I started a job in a big corporation. I got married, had my first baby and was just living a really quiet, private life.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

MOGAHED: And then that horrific morning of 2001, where we were attacked as a country and, really, as a faith community. And that morning, I think everything changed.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

MOGAHED: I remember the first Friday after 9/11. I had to decide whether or not to go to the mosque⁷. And at the time, there were actually a lot of threats against Muslims. And I remember the decision that me and my family made at the time was one of putting faith over fear. We were not going to allow these terrorists to tell us how we were going to be an American.

And so we - nervously⁸ - but still went to the mosque that Friday. And what we found wasn't an angry protest or violence. We found half the congregation were people of other faiths that came to stand in solidarity⁹. And really, that act of courage and compassion¹⁰ on the part of all of these neighbors inspired me so much. And from that moment on, I felt that I had to dedicate my life to building bridges and bringing about better understanding.

RAZ: When you speak out and you talk about unfair perceptions and misconceptions of Muslims in the media and misunderstanding of what Islam is all about, do you think that perceptions are changing? Do you think that when you speak out, it's going to change minds?

MOGAHED: I absolutely know it's going to change minds because it does change minds. And I've had an outpour of people who've written me and said that their minds were changed. Every single letter brings tears to my eyes, people who say, I used to be Islamophobic; now I'm not. Literally¹¹, people telling me that.

So education can really change minds. And so I come at this from a very specific perspective. And when I speak to people, it is from a place of generosity¹². It is not from a place of need. I want to give them something. And when you approach people from that place of generosity, they respond very differently than when you approach them from a place of need or a place of antagonism¹³.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

MOGAHED: I do think, with every fiber¹⁴ in my body, that Islamophobia is a threat to every American. And it, yes, something that will hurt Muslims first, but it is symptomatic of a wider problem. It is a rise in fear. Fear kills freedom. When people are afraid, they are more likely to accept authoritarianism¹⁵, conformity¹⁶ and prejudice.

(SOUNDBITE OF TED TALK)

MOGAHED: When you look at when anti-Muslim sentiment spiked¹⁷ between 2001 and 2013, it happened three times. But it wasn't around terrorist attacks. It was in the run-up to the Iraq War and during two election cycles. So Islamophobia isn't just the natural response to Muslim terrorism, as I would have expected. It can actually be a tool of public manipulation, eroding¹⁸ the very foundation of a free society, which is rational and well-informed citizens. Muslims are like canaries in the coal mine. We might be the first to feel it, but the toxic¹⁹ air of fear is harming us all.

RAZ: How would you characterize the climate in America today for Muslim-Americans?

MOGAHED: I've never seen it worse, and I've never seen it better. I've never seen it worse in terms of what's OK to say, kinds of policy proposals that are OK to discuss. But at the same time, I've never seen it better. I've never seen so much awareness²⁰ of the problem of Islamophobia because it didn't emerge last year. It didn't start (laughter) with Trump²¹.

It is only now that people have stopped denying it exists. And what is so heartening to me is that if you look at American history, we've had lots of problems. And at first, we deny they exist. And they persist, and they persist, and they get worse. And then finally, we recognize their existence - things like racism²², sexism - and then we we work on them. At least we have a process for that. And I think we will all come out the other side, perhaps exhausted²³ but, I think, a better people, a better country after this is all over.

RAZ: Doing what you do is like - takes a lot of emotional energy - right? - because you get attacked, and you put yourself out there. I mean, your life would be infinitely²⁴ less complex if you just kept quiet - right? - if you didn't say anything, if you just kept your head down and went through life without speaking out.

MOGAHED: It would be infinitely, yes, less complicated. But I would also cease to be myself. And I wouldn't even know who I was if I lived that kind of a life. I feel this is what I'm called to. Bearing witness to justice is what my faith demands of me. And is - it is what I hope to have the privilege to do for the rest of my life.

RAZ: Dalia Mogahed - she's the director of research at the Institute of Social Policy and Understanding. You can see her full talk at ted.com.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "WE DON'T RUN")

WILLIE NELSON: (Singing) Words that feel, words that sympathize, words that heal and understand - say them now. Let them materialize. Say the words throughout the land.

RAZ: Hey, thanks for listening to our show Speaking Up this week. If you want to find out more about who is on it go, to npr.org. To see hundreds more TED Talks, check out ted.com or the TED app. Our production staff at NPR includes Jeff Rogers, Brent Baughman, Sanaz Meshkinpour, Neva Grant, Casey Herman, Jinae West, Rund Abdelfatah and Rachel Faulkner with help from Daniel Shukin. Our intern²⁵ is Thomas Liu (ph). Our partners at TED are Chris Anderson, Kelly Stoetzel, Anna Phelan and Janet Lee.

If you want to let us know what you think about the show, you can write us. That's [email protected]. You can also follow us on Twitter. It's @tedradiohour. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to ideas worth spreading right here on the TED Radio Hour from NPR.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "WE DON'T RUN")

NELSON: (Singing) We never do. We look for love. We find it in the eyes, the eyes of me and the eyes of you.

1 hatred   

n.憎恶，憎恨，仇恨

参考例句：

• He looked at me with hatred in his eyes.他以憎恨的眼光望着我。
• The old man was seized with burning hatred for the fascists.老人对法西斯主义者充满了仇恨。

2 physically   

adj.物质上，体格上，身体上，按自然规律

参考例句：

• He was out of sorts physically,as well as disordered mentally.他浑身不舒服，心绪也很乱。
• Every time I think about it I feel physically sick.一想起那件事我就感到极恶心。

3 ted   

vt.翻晒，撒，撒开

参考例句：

• The invaders gut ted the village.侵略者把村中财物洗劫一空。
• She often teds the corn when it's sunny.天好的时候她就翻晒玉米。

4 portraying   

v.画像( portray的现在分词 )；描述；描绘；描画

参考例句：

• The artist has succeeded in portraying my father to the life. 那位画家把我的父亲画得惟妙惟肖。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Ding Ling was good at portraying figures through careful and refined description of human psychology. 《莎菲女士的日记》是丁玲的成名作，曾引起强烈的社会反响。 来自汉英文学 - 中国现代小说

5 coverage   

n.报导，保险范围，保险额，范围，覆盖

参考例句：

• There's little coverage of foreign news in the newspaper.报纸上几乎没有国外新闻报道。
• This is an insurance policy with extensive coverage.这是一项承保范围广泛的保险。

6 hibernation   

n.冬眠

参考例句：

• Bears wake up in the spring after a winter of hibernation.熊经过一个冬天的冬眠后在春季苏醒。
• The tortoise spends the winter months in hibernation.乌龟在冬眠中度过寒冬季节。

7 mosque   

n.清真寺

参考例句：

• The mosque is a activity site and culture center of Muslim religion.清真寺为穆斯林宗教活动场所和文化中心。
• Some years ago the clock in the tower of the mosque got out of order.几年前，清真寺钟楼里的大钟失灵了。

8 nervously   

adv.神情激动地，不安地

参考例句：

• He bit his lip nervously,trying not to cry.他紧张地咬着唇，努力忍着不哭出来。
• He paced nervously up and down on the platform.他在站台上情绪不安地走来走去。

9 solidarity   

n.团结；休戚相关

参考例句：

• They must preserve their solidarity.他们必须维护他们的团结。
• The solidarity among China's various nationalities is as firm as a rock.中国各族人民之间的团结坚如磐石。

10 compassion   

n.同情，怜悯

参考例句：

• He could not help having compassion for the poor creature.他情不自禁地怜悯起那个可怜的人来。
• Her heart was filled with compassion for the motherless children.她对于没有母亲的孩子们充满了怜悯心。

11 literally   

adv.照字面意义，逐字地；确实

参考例句：

• He translated the passage literally.他逐字逐句地翻译这段文字。
• Sometimes she would not sit down till she was literally faint.有时候，她不走到真正要昏厥了，决不肯坐下来。

12 generosity   

n.大度，慷慨，慷慨的行为

参考例句：

• We should match their generosity with our own.我们应该像他们一样慷慨大方。
• We adore them for their generosity.我们钦佩他们的慷慨。

13 antagonism   

n.对抗，敌对，对立

参考例句：

• People did not feel a strong antagonism for established policy.人们没有对既定方针产生强烈反应。
• There is still much antagonism between trades unions and the oil companies.工会和石油公司之间仍然存在着相当大的敌意。

14 fiber   

n.纤维，纤维质

参考例句：

• The basic structural unit of yarn is the fiber.纤维是纱的基本结构单元。
• The material must be free of fiber clumps.这种材料必须无纤维块。

15 authoritarianism   

权力主义，独裁主义

参考例句：

• Modern authoritarianism is a vestige of traditional personal rule. 现代独裁主义则是传统的个人统治的残余。
• In its latter days it was a byword for authoritarianism, incompetence, and corruption. 在后期，它是独裁、无能和腐化的代号。

16 conformity   

n.一致，遵从，顺从

参考例句：

• Was his action in conformity with the law?他的行动是否合法？
• The plan was made in conformity with his views.计划仍按他的意见制定。

17 spiked   

adj.有穗的；成锥形的；有尖顶的

参考例句：

• The editor spiked the story. 编辑删去了这篇报道。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• They wondered whether their drinks had been spiked. 他们有些疑惑自己的饮料里是否被偷偷搀了烈性酒。 来自辞典例句

18 eroding   

侵蚀，腐蚀( erode的现在分词 )； 逐渐毁坏，削弱，损害

参考例句：

• The coast is slowly eroding. 海岸正慢慢地被侵蚀。
• Another new development is eroding the age-old stereotype of the male warrior. 另一个新现象是，久已形成的男人皆武士的形象正逐渐消失。

19 toxic   

adj.有毒的，因中毒引起的

参考例句：

• The factory had accidentally released a quantity of toxic waste into the sea.这家工厂意外泄漏大量有毒废物到海中。
• There is a risk that toxic chemicals might be blasted into the atmosphere.爆炸后有毒化学物质可能会进入大气层。

20 awareness   

n.意识，觉悟，懂事，明智

参考例句：

• There is a general awareness that smoking is harmful.人们普遍认识到吸烟有害健康。
• Environmental awareness has increased over the years.这些年来人们的环境意识增强了。

21 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

22 racism   

n.民族主义；种族歧视(意识)

参考例句：

• He said that racism is endemic in this country.他说种族主义在该国很普遍。
• Racism causes political instability and violence.种族主义道致政治动荡和暴力事件。

23 exhausted   

adj.极其疲惫的，精疲力尽的

参考例句：

• It was a long haul home and we arrived exhausted.搬运回家的这段路程特别长，到家时我们已筋疲力尽。
• Jenny was exhausted by the hustle of city life.珍妮被城市生活的忙乱弄得筋疲力尽。

24 infinitely   

adv.无限地，无穷地

参考例句：

• There is an infinitely bright future ahead of us.我们有无限光明的前途。
• The universe is infinitely large.宇宙是无限大的。

25 intern   

v.拘禁，软禁；n.实习生

参考例句：

• I worked as an intern in that firm last summer.去年夏天我在那家商行实习。
• The intern bandaged the cut as the nurse looked on.这位实习生在护士的照看下给病人包扎伤口。