美国国家公共电台 NPR Elizabeth Moss Has A 'Handmaid's Tale' Warning: 'This Could Happen Here'

 

ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:

Last night's Emmys had the usual song and dance plus a dose of politics. From the opening monologue¹ to a cameo by former White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer, the political mood even extended to the biggest winner of the night.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

OPRAH WINFREY: And the Emmy goes to "The Handmaid's Tale."

(CHEERING, APPLAUSE)

AILSA CHANG, HOST:

"The Handmaid's Tale" tells the story of what happens when a theocratic² dictatorship takes over the government and gets rid of women's rights. The series took home eight Emmys. The show is on Hulu, and this was the first time a streaming service took home the Emmy for best drama. "The Handmaid's Tale" is based on a book by Margaret Atwood.

SHAPIRO: Our colleague Audie Cornish spoke³ with two of the stars of "The Handmaid's Tale" earlier this year. While she's on maternity⁴ leave, we thought we would revisit the interview in light of the show's eight wins last night. They began by talking about one element of the story. The dictatorial⁵ government takes away women's access to financial credit.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED BROADCAST)

ELISABETH MOSS⁶: It was very important to us from the very beginning to make sure that people understood that this is present in a sort of this-could-happen-here idea.

AUDIE CORNISH, BYLINE⁷: That's Elisabeth Moss. She plays Offred, the main character. In this imaginary country called Gilead, women don't even have the right to their own names. Samira Wiley plays Moira, Offred's best friend from before Gilead. In flashbacks, their world seems normal. They go for jogs, talk about Uber and Tinder and organize protests. So when the government suspends all women's bank accounts both Offred and Moira react with disbelief.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE HANDMAID'S TALE")

MOSS: (As Offred) They can't just do this. They can't.

CORNISH: In fact, Offred's husband at the time, Luke, assures her that he'll take care of her, and she and Moira call him out on it.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE HANDMAID'S TALE")

MOSS: (As Offred) It sounds a little patronizing.

SAMIRA WILEY: (As Moira) He's so patronizing.

O-T FAGBENLE: (As Luke) Go on, bring it on. I want to hear why I shouldn't take care of my wife.

WILEY: (As Moira) My wife?

FAGBENLE: (As Luke) Yeah.

WILEY: (As Moira) She doesn't belong to you.

MOSS: (As Offred) That's right.

WILEY: (As Moira) No, no, no, she isn't your property, and she doesn't need you to take care of her.

CORNISH: Samira Wiley, as you were going through this scene - I mean it's interesting. This is language that we hear all the time. We hear it today. And this is a character - like, he loves his wife, right? This is not supposed to be an insult.

WILEY: Absolutely. It's not supposed to be an insult. It's supposed to be, I believe, reassuring⁸ to his wife that everything is going to be OK. It comes from a place of love. But Moira is very, very sensitive to that language. She is in every way, shape or form a feminist⁹. She feels like she's standing¹⁰ up 100 percent for what she believes in and where women should be in the present. And if anyone comes even close to jeopardizing¹¹ that, it is her responsibility to nip that in the bud.

CORNISH: You know, it's one thing when you hear this language laughing over the kitchen table. It's another thing when someone is wielding¹² it against you with a cattle prod¹³.

WILEY: Absolutely.

MOSS: (Laughter) Yeah. Yeah, I mean that scene - you know, it's directly from the book. And it really sets up this complexity¹⁴ that Margaret Atwood is so good at of, well, what is my husband supposed to say? The women now don't have access to any of their money. And of course my husband loves me, and he just says what comes naturally, which is, I'm going to take care of you. And of course that brings up a sensitive issue of, oh, great, now I have to be taken care of.

CORNISH: The rest of the story is about these women living in this period under this repressive regime. Because of widespread infertility¹⁵, women are essentially¹⁶ commodities literally¹⁷ reduced to their fertility. And it's interesting. Other women are expected to police, train (laughter) and punish them. I mean they are the enforcers in this process. There are some characters known as Aunts who help do this training. And one in particular, Aunt Lydia - we have a little sound of her in indoctrination mode.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE HANDMAID'S TALE")

ANN DOWD: (As Aunt Lydia) You girls will serve the leaders of the faithful and their barren wives. You will bear children for them. Oh, you are so lucky.

CORNISH: That, oh, you are so lucky at the end is just so chilling. Like, in my living room, I was like, oh, I don't know. I don't know if I can do this.

(LAUGHTER)

CORNISH: How did you think about, like, how women become a part of systems sometimes that hurt other women?

MOSS: I mean I think that, you know, it's - this is Elisabeth, by the way. It's another interesting thing raised by Margaret and by the show, which is, a really good way to control women is by using other women. And we also play the opposite, which is, women when they stand together can be incredibly powerful. Ann Dowd plays Aunt Lydia, and when she speaks about the character, she says from her perspective, she loves these girls. She believes she's actually doing a good deed and good service by protecting these women. And that's one of the things about this show - is we provide these different points of view and make these characters complex and not black and white.

CORNISH: Costuming plays such an enormous role here. You have the rich married women of privilege wearing blue, the barren Aunts wearing gray and the Handmaids, who are basically both sexual and birth surrogates, wear scarlet¹⁸ red and this white bonnet¹⁹ that restricts their vision. What kind of effect did the costuming have on you?

WILEY: I think - this is Samira, by the way - it highlights the differences between who I am and who the other is. It shows immediately how I am supposed to relate to someone. If I see a Handmaid who is of the same caste as I am, I know that we are equal. But if I see that you are a Martha, if I see immediately that you are a wife, then I know how I am supposed to react. And that is just another way to have the oppression right on top of these women.

CORNISH: The Handmaid's costume has appeared in real life in recent times. Silent protesters wore similar costumes in a demonstration²⁰ against the passage of abortion²¹ restrictions²² in Texas. Have you guys seen these photos, and how weird²³ was that?

MOSS: Oh, not weird, awesome²⁴ - I mean so, so cool. This costume, this color, the bonnets²⁵, they're so iconic. And they stand immediately for feminism and women's rights. And you just take one look at that costume, and you know what that girl is doing. You know why she's wearing it. So for me, seeing something like that, it's a very moving thing.

CORNISH: It also reminds me or sort of drew something in relief I think the television show does different from the book - is underscored the idea of different kinds of resistance, that it's not - not everyone does it the same way. And how have you been thinking about that more because along this tour, I feel like everybody has asked you guys about the new administration, about Trump²⁶, about feminism. It's like they're kind of asking a lot of a television adaptation.

MOSS: (Laughter) Yeah. This is Elisabeth. I mean I think that's one of the great things about it - is there are many different ways of resistance and all of them should be used (laughter).

WILEY: Yeah, exactly.

MOSS: You know, I mean, marching, talking, conversation. Margaret has a quote that I love, which is, a word after a word after a word is power. And you can mean more than one. You can mean thousands.

WILEY: Exactly. I think that they are all valid²⁷. And the costumes and the world of Gilead strips people of their identities. And a television show at the end of the day can be art. And it can elicit²⁸ real change. It can elicit real thought and real conversations for people who maybe necessarily wouldn't even be having these conversations. And I just feel so blessed to be able to be a part of something that can elicit real change.

(SOUNDBITE OF LESLEY GORE²⁹ SONG, "YOU DON'T OWN ME")

CORNISH: Well, Elisabeth Moss, Samira Wiley, thank you so much for speaking with us.

WILEY: Oh, thank you so much for having us.

MOSS: Thank you so much.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "YOU DON'T OWN ME")

LESLEY GORE: (Singing) You don't own me.

CHANG: That was our colleague Audie Cornish interviewing the starts of "The Handmaid's Tale" earlier this year.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "YOU DON'T OWN ME")

GORE: (Singing) You don't own me. Don't say I can't go with other boys.

1 monologue   

n.长篇大论，（戏剧等中的）独白

参考例句：

• The comedian gave a long monologue of jokes.喜剧演员讲了一长段由笑话组成的独白。
• He went into a long monologue.他一个人滔滔不绝地讲话。

2 theocratic   

adj.神权的，神权政治的

参考例句：

• The priest caste wields considerable power in this rigidly theocratic society. 祭司阶层(priestcaste)在这个严格的神权社会中掌握着相当大的权力。 来自互联网
• The heartland of Islam, by contrast, is theocratic. 相反，伊斯兰教的核心地带则是神权政治。 来自互联网

3 spoke   

n.（车轮的）辐条；轮辐；破坏某人的计划；阻挠某人的行动 v.讲，谈（speak的过去式）；说；演说；从某种观点来说

参考例句：

• They sourced the spoke nuts from our company.他们的轮辐螺帽是从我们公司获得的。
• The spokes of a wheel are the bars that connect the outer ring to the centre.辐条是轮子上连接外圈与中心的条棒。

4 maternity   

n.母性，母道，妇产科病房；adj.孕妇的，母性的

参考例句：

• Women workers are entitled to maternity leave with full pay.女工产假期间工资照发。
• Trainee nurses have to work for some weeks in maternity.受训的护士必须在产科病房工作数周。

5 dictatorial   

adj. 独裁的，专断的

参考例句：

• Her father is very dictatorial.她父亲很专横。
• For years the nation had been under the heel of a dictatorial regime.多年来这个国家一直在独裁政权的铁蹄下。

6 moss   

n.苔，藓，地衣

参考例句：

• Moss grows on a rock.苔藓生在石头上。
• He was found asleep on a pillow of leaves and moss.有人看见他枕着树叶和苔藓睡着了。

7 byline   

n.署名；v.署名

参考例句：

• His byline was absent as well.他的署名也不见了。
• We wish to thank the author of this article which carries no byline.我们要感谢这篇文章的那位没有署名的作者。

8 reassuring   

a.使人消除恐惧和疑虑的，使人放心的

参考例句：

• He gave her a reassuring pat on the shoulder. 他轻拍了一下她的肩膀让她放心。
• With a reassuring pat on her arm, he left. 他鼓励地拍了拍她的手臂就离开了。

9 feminist   

adj.主张男女平等的，女权主义的

参考例句：

• She followed the feminist movement.她支持女权运动。
• From then on,feminist studies on literature boomed.从那时起，男女平等受教育的现象开始迅速兴起。

10 standing   

n.持续，地位；adj.永久的，不动的，直立的，不流动的

参考例句：

• After the earthquake only a few houses were left standing.地震过后只有几幢房屋还立着。
• They're standing out against any change in the law.他们坚决反对对法律做任何修改。

11 jeopardizing   

危及，损害( jeopardize的现在分词 )

参考例句：

• Plans may also become inefficient in the attainment of objectives by jeopardizing group satisfactions. 用危及群体利益方法去达到目标的计划，也是无效率的。
• That boosted government revenues in the short term, but is now jeopardizing them. Morales将天然气工业，电信业和部分采矿业收归国有的举措吓跑了投资者们。

12 wielding   

手持着使用（武器、工具等）( wield的现在分词 )； 具有； 运用（权力）； 施加（影响）

参考例句：

• The rebels were wielding sticks of dynamite. 叛乱分子舞动着棒状炸药。
• He is wielding a knife. 他在挥舞着一把刀。

13 prod   

vt.戳，刺；刺激，激励

参考例句：

• The crisis will prod them to act.那个危机将刺激他们行动。
• I shall have to prod him to pay me what he owes.我将不得不催促他把欠我的钱还给我。

14 complexity   

n.复杂(性)，复杂的事物

参考例句：

• Only now did he understand the full complexity of the problem.直到现在他才明白这一问题的全部复杂性。
• The complexity of the road map puzzled me.错综复杂的公路图把我搞糊涂了。

15 infertility   

n.不肥沃，不毛；不育

参考例句：

• It is the Geneva, Switzerland-based Biotech Company's second recombinant infertility drug. 它是瑞士生物技术公司在日内瓦的公司生产的第二种重组治疗不孕症的药。 来自英汉非文学 - 生命科学 - 生物技术制药疫苗
• Endometritis is a cause of infertility. 子宫内膜炎是不育的原子。 来自辞典例句

16 essentially   

adv.本质上，实质上，基本上

参考例句：

• Really great men are essentially modest.真正的伟人大都很谦虚。
• She is an essentially selfish person.她本质上是个自私自利的人。

17 literally   

adv.照字面意义，逐字地；确实

参考例句：

• He translated the passage literally.他逐字逐句地翻译这段文字。
• Sometimes she would not sit down till she was literally faint.有时候，她不走到真正要昏厥了，决不肯坐下来。

18 scarlet   

n.深红色，绯红色，红衣；adj.绯红色的

参考例句：

• The scarlet leaves of the maples contrast well with the dark green of the pines.深红的枫叶和暗绿的松树形成了明显的对比。
• The glowing clouds are growing slowly pale,scarlet,bright red,and then light red.天空的霞光渐渐地淡下去了，深红的颜色变成了绯红，绯红又变为浅红。

19 bonnet   

n.无边女帽；童帽

参考例句：

• The baby's bonnet keeps the sun out of her eyes.婴孩的帽子遮住阳光，使之不刺眼。
• She wore a faded black bonnet garnished with faded artificial flowers.她戴着一顶褪了色的黑色无边帽，帽上缀着褪了色的假花。

20 demonstration   

n.表明，示范，论证，示威

参考例句：

• His new book is a demonstration of his patriotism.他写的新书是他的爱国精神的证明。
• He gave a demonstration of the new technique then and there.他当场表演了这种新的操作方法。

21 abortion   

n.流产，堕胎

参考例句：

• She had an abortion at the women's health clinic.她在妇女保健医院做了流产手术。
• A number of considerations have led her to have a wilful abortion.多种考虑使她执意堕胎。

22 restrictions   

约束( restriction的名词复数 )； 管制； 制约因素； 带限制性的条件（或规则）

参考例句：

• I found the restrictions irksome. 我对那些限制感到很烦。
• a snaggle of restrictions 杂乱无章的种种限制

23 weird   

adj.古怪的，离奇的；怪诞的，神秘而可怕的

参考例句：

• From his weird behaviour,he seems a bit of an oddity.从他不寻常的行为看来，他好像有点怪。
• His weird clothes really gas me.他的怪衣裳简直笑死人。

24 awesome   

adj.令人惊叹的，难得吓人的，很好的

参考例句：

• The church in Ireland has always exercised an awesome power.爱尔兰的教堂一直掌握着令人敬畏的权力。
• That new white convertible is totally awesome.那辆新的白色折篷汽车简直棒极了.

25 bonnets   

n.童帽( bonnet的名词复数 )；（烟囱等的）覆盖物；（苏格兰男子的）无边呢帽；（女子戴的）任何一种帽子

参考例句：

• All the best bonnets of the city were there. 城里戴最漂亮的无边女帽的妇女全都到场了。 来自辞典例句
• I am tempting you with bonnets and bangles and leading you into a pit. 我是在用帽子和镯子引诱你，引你上钩。 来自飘（部分）

26 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

27 valid   

adj.有确实根据的；有效的；正当的，合法的

参考例句：

• His claim to own the house is valid.他主张对此屋的所有权有效。
• Do you have valid reasons for your absence?你的缺席有正当理由吗？

28 elicit   

v.引出,抽出,引起

参考例句：

• It was designed to elicit the best thinking within the government. 机构的设置是为了在政府内部集思广益。
• Don't try to elicit business secrets from me. I won't tell you anything. 你休想从我这里套问出我们的商业机密, 我什么都不会告诉你的。

29 gore   

n.凝血，血污；v.（动物）用角撞伤，用牙刺破；缝以补裆；顶

参考例句：

• The fox lay dying in a pool of gore.狐狸倒在血泊中奄奄一息。
• Carruthers had been gored by a rhinoceros.卡拉瑟斯被犀牛顶伤了。