美国国家公共电台 NPR 'Deep State' Author Says Trump Has Learned Nothing From The Russia Investigation

 

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

Events of the past few weeks can make Robert Mueller's investigation¹ seem ancient. But it was only months ago that the special counsel presented findings on Russia's participation² in the 2016 election. The special counsel was appointed in May of 2017, shortly after President Trump³ fired the FBI director who was investigating Russia, and a new book reconstructs the origins of that appointment.

Investigative reporter James B. Stewart is the author of "Deep State" and is on the line from New York. Welcome to the program.

JAMES B STEWART: Thanks, Steve.

INSKEEP: I want to note that, among many other things, you focus on Rod Rosenstein, who we should recall was the deputy attorney general, the No. 2 in the Justice Department in May of 2017. What makes him such a vital character to you?

STEWART: Well, he's a pivotal character in the story and, really, even in the drama that extends to today because he was in charge of the Russia investigation. He was the one who appointed the special counsel. He came into his job in the Justice Department as a very highly regarded independent prosecutor⁴. And over the course of time, he turned into - I don't want to overstate this, but something of a lackey⁵ for the president and for the new Attorney General William Barr.

He rushed to judgment⁶. He was quick to exonerate⁷ Trump. He mischaracterized the findings of the Mueller report, and he quickly left.

INSKEEP: How would that happen? Because in the beginning, when Sessions, Jeff Sessions, the attorney general who recused himself, Rosenstein was seen as the guy who was overseeing the Mueller investigation and the guy who was a firewall, who was protecting the Mueller investigation from repeated efforts by the president to interfere⁸ with it.

STEWART: Well, it's a fascinating study, both in the exercise of power from the White House and in an exercise of character and someone caught up in these tumultuous and, I have to say, highly dramatic events. He was barely in office when he was summoned to the White House and told to write a memo⁹ that would justify¹⁰ the firing of Jim Comey. Now, Jim Comey's someone he had brought to his U.S. attorney's office as a role model for his prosecutors¹¹. He now wrote a memo about Comey's handling of the Clinton investigation, which Trump seized upon and then tried to make Rosenstein the public instigator¹² of the movement to fire Comey.

Now, I think Rosenstein was utterly¹³ stunned¹⁴ by this turn of events because that was not true. He knew it wasn't true. Sessions - wasn't true. Not only did Comey fire - I mean did Trump fire Comey, but he immediately started publicly lying about it, and it sent Rosenstein into a panic. I mean, those days after he was fired - I had multiple, multiple sources on this - was incredibly tumultuous inside the FBI, inside the Justice Department. Rosenstein was having some kind of a meltdown. He called for secretly wiring the president to collect evidence of obstruction¹⁵. He thought about invoking¹⁶ the 25th Amendment¹⁷.

When he finally calmed down, this all, of course, got back to Trump. Trump now had every reason to fire him if he wanted to. And yet on two different occasions, they had one-on-one meetings and, amazingly, Rosenstein comes out with his job intact. Now, Comey said - when someone asked him about it when Rosenstein was first appointed - he said of Rosenstein, he said, he is a survivor¹⁸. The problem in this administration is you survive at what cost?

Now, defenders¹⁹ of Rosenstein told me that his sole goal was to keep Mueller from being fired and to help him finish his job. But did he really finish that job?

INSKEEP: I want to just...

STEWART: And who really won that victory?

INSKEEP: Yeah.

STEWART: Trump claimed total victory.

INSKEEP: I just want to note for the record, Rosenstein, along the way, denied some of the things you report. For example, the consideration of the 25th Amendment. But you also report something, a very small thing, that seems quite revealing. After Rosenstein wrote this memo, helped to get Jim Comey fired, you report that he was asking if he could get the advice of James Comey about what to do next.

STEWART: I know. It's an extraordinary scene where he's sitting there. He says, there's no one at the Justice Department I can trust, there's no one here I can talk to. He was extremely isolated²⁰. He couldn't talk to the White House, obviously. Sessions was of no help. And he says, I want to talk to Jim Comey. I mean, suddenly, he's back to the - this was the Jim Comey you wanted to come talk to, as prosecutors, as a role model. But he had just basically fired the guy, or contributed to his firing.

I mean, everybody at the FBI was astonished by this. And they thought about reaching out to Comey to see if he would talk to Rosenstein. But then in the end, they didn't do it because he was no longer the head of the FBI. He no longer had a government job, and they didn't think it was appropriate.

INSKEEP: So let me ask about the present day here because you have - you say that Rosenstein, despite all of this, was turned into what you called a lackey. We can talk about people who are alleged²¹ to be enablers around the president. And we now have this story involving Ukraine, where the president was campaigning to have a political rival investigated. And numerous state department diplomats²², who had their own misgivings²³ in some cases, went along with this. Other people went along with this. The president's personal lawyer deeply and publicly involved himself in this.

What do you think about that story, having learned what you learned about the recent past?

STEWART: Well, it's fascinating because as you see in the deep state story, there were people around Trump who saved him from his worst impulses. Bannon, McGahn, even Sessions. I mean, there were people, you can criticize them for one thing or another, but they knew the line between legal and illegal. All of those people are gone. He now has the people he wants in place, the ones who will not stop him from doing what he wants. The other thing that's so astonishing to me is that he appears to have learned nothing from the Russia investigation except that he prevailed and he won, which only emboldened²⁴ him to do something even more brazen²⁵ and then again to engage in a cover-up to hide it.

INSKEEP: Is his interest in Ukraine somehow connected to that 2016 election, the Russian involvement in the previous investigations²⁶...

STEWART: Absolutely. The lines come right out of the deep state story. He's blaming the deep state now for it all. It all goes back to the origins of the Russia investigation, how that came about, how information reached the FBI. All of that story is completely told in my book. It is not a sinister²⁷ conspiracy²⁸ that was meant to undermine him. It was all done perfectly²⁹ appropriately with some of the United States' closest allies. The only reason Trump was made a target was because he fired Comey and then lied about it.

INSKEEP: Mr. Stewart, thanks very much.

STEWART: It's my pleasure. Thank you.

INSKEEP: The latest book from James B. Stewart is "Deep State: Trump, The FBI, And The Rule Of Law," and it is out tomorrow.

1 investigation   

n.调查，调查研究

参考例句：

• In an investigation,a new fact became known, which told against him.在调查中新发现了一件对他不利的事实。
• He drew the conclusion by building on his own investigation.他根据自己的调查研究作出结论。

2 participation   

n.参与，参加，分享

参考例句：

• Some of the magic tricks called for audience participation.有些魔术要求有观众的参与。
• The scheme aims to encourage increased participation in sporting activities.这个方案旨在鼓励大众更多地参与体育活动。

3 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

4 prosecutor   

n.起诉人；检察官，公诉人

参考例句：

• The defender argued down the prosecutor at the court.辩护人在法庭上驳倒了起诉人。
• The prosecutor would tear your testimony to pieces.检查官会把你的证言驳得体无完肤。

5 lackey   

n.侍从；跟班

参考例句：

• I'm not staying as a paid lackey to act as your yes-man.我不要再做拿钱任你使唤的应声虫。
• Who would have thought that Fredo would become a lackey of women?谁能料到弗烈特竟堕落成女人脚下的哈叭狗？

6 judgment   

n.审判；判断力，识别力，看法，意见

参考例句：

• The chairman flatters himself on his judgment of people.主席自认为他审视人比别人高明。
• He's a man of excellent judgment.他眼力过人。

7 exonerate   

v.免除责任，确定无罪

参考例句：

• Nothing can exonerate her from that.任何解释都难辞其咎。
• There is no reason to exonerate him from the ordinary duties of a citizen.没有理由免除他做公民应尽的义务。

8 interfere   

v.(in)干涉，干预；(with)妨碍，打扰

参考例句：

• If we interfere, it may do more harm than good.如果我们干预的话，可能弊多利少。
• When others interfere in the affair,it always makes troubles. 别人一卷入这一事件，棘手的事情就来了。

9 memo   

n.照会，备忘录；便笺；通知书；规章

参考例句：

• Do you want me to send the memo out?您要我把这份备忘录分发出去吗？
• Can you type a memo for me?您能帮我打一份备忘录吗？

10 justify   

vt.证明…正当(或有理)，为…辩护

参考例句：

• He tried to justify his absence with lame excuses.他想用站不住脚的借口为自己的缺席辩解。
• Can you justify your rude behavior to me?你能向我证明你的粗野行为是有道理的吗？

11 prosecutors   

检举人( prosecutor的名词复数 )； 告发人； 起诉人； 公诉人

参考例句：

• In some places,public prosecutors are elected rather than appointed. 在有些地方，检察官是经选举而非任命产生的。 来自口语例句
• You've been summoned to the Prosecutors' Office, 2 days later. 你在两天以后被宣到了检察官的办公室。

12 instigator   

n.煽动者

参考例句：

• It is not a and differs from instigator in nature. 在刑法理论中，通常将教唆犯作为共犯的一种类型加以探究。 来自互联网
• If we are really the instigator, we are awaiting punishment. 如果我们真的是煽动者，那我们愿意接受惩罚。 来自互联网

13 utterly   

adv.完全地，绝对地

参考例句：

• Utterly devoted to the people,he gave his life in saving his patients.他忠于人民，把毕生精力用于挽救患者的生命。
• I was utterly ravished by the way she smiled.她的微笑使我完全陶醉了。

14 stunned   

adj. 震惊的，惊讶的 动词stun的过去式和过去分词

参考例句：

• The fall stunned me for a moment. 那一下摔得我昏迷了片刻。
• The leaders of the Kopper Company were then stunned speechless. 科伯公司的领导们当时被惊得目瞪口呆。

15 obstruction   

n.阻塞，堵塞；障碍物

参考例句：

• She was charged with obstruction of a police officer in the execution of his duty.她被指控妨碍警察执行任务。
• The road was cleared from obstruction.那条路已被清除了障碍。

16 invoking   

v.援引( invoke的现在分词 )；行使（权利等）；祈求救助；恳求

参考例句：

• You can customise the behavior of the Asynchronous Server and hence re-brand it by defining your own command set for invoking services. 通过定义自己调用服务的命令集，您可以定制自定义异步服务器的行为，通过为调用服务定义自己的命令集从而对它重新标记。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• You can customize the behavior of the Asynchronous Server and hence re-brand it by defining your own command set for invoking services. 通过定义自己调用服务的命令集，您可以定制自定义异步服务器的行为，通过为调用服务定义自己的命令集从而对它重新标记。 来自辞典例句

17 amendment   

n.改正，修正，改善，修正案

参考例句：

• The amendment was rejected by 207 voters to 143.这项修正案以207票对143票被否决。
• The Opposition has tabled an amendment to the bill.反对党已经就该议案提交了一项修正条款。

18 survivor   

n.生存者，残存者，幸存者

参考例句：

• The sole survivor of the crash was an infant.这次撞车的惟一幸存者是一个婴儿。
• There was only one survivor of the plane crash.这次飞机失事中只有一名幸存者。

19 defenders   

n.防御者( defender的名词复数 )；守卫者；保护者；辩护者

参考例句：

• The defenders were outnumbered and had to give in. 抵抗者寡不敌众，只能投降。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• After hard fighting,the defenders were still masters of the city. 守军经过奋战仍然控制着城市。 来自《简明英汉词典》

20 isolated   

adj.与世隔绝的

参考例句：

• His bad behaviour was just an isolated incident. 他的不良行为只是个别事件。
• Patients with the disease should be isolated. 这种病的患者应予以隔离。

21 alleged   

a.被指控的，嫌疑的

参考例句：

• It was alleged that he had taken bribes while in office. 他被指称在任时收受贿赂。
• alleged irregularities in the election campaign 被指称竞选运动中的不正当行为

22 diplomats   

n.外交官( diplomat的名词复数 )；有手腕的人，善于交际的人

参考例句：

• These events led to the expulsion of senior diplomats from the country. 这些事件导致一些高级外交官被驱逐出境。
• The court has no jurisdiction over foreign diplomats living in this country. 法院对驻本国的外交官无裁判权。 来自《简明英汉词典》

23 misgivings   

n.疑虑，担忧，害怕；疑虑，担心，恐惧( misgiving的名词复数 )；疑惧

参考例句：

• I had grave misgivings about making the trip. 对于这次旅行我有过极大的顾虑。
• Don't be overtaken by misgivings and fear. Just go full stream ahead! 不要瞻前顾后， 畏首畏尾。甩开膀子干吧！ 来自《现代汉英综合大词典》

24 emboldened   

v.鼓励，使有胆量( embolden的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• Emboldened by the wine, he went over to introduce himself to her. 他借酒壮胆，走上前去向她作自我介绍。
• His success emboldened him to expand his business. 他有了成就因而激发他进一步扩展业务。 来自《简明英汉词典》

25 brazen   

adj.厚脸皮的，无耻的，坚硬的

参考例句：

• The brazen woman laughed loudly at the judge who sentenced her.那无耻的女子冲着给她判刑的法官高声大笑。
• Some people prefer to brazen a thing out rather than admit defeat.有的人不愿承认失败，而是宁肯厚着脸皮干下去。

26 investigations   

（正式的）调查( investigation的名词复数 )； 侦查； 科学研究； 学术研究

参考例句：

• His investigations were intensive and thorough but revealed nothing. 他进行了深入彻底的调查，但没有发现什么。
• He often sent them out to make investigations. 他常常派他们出去作调查。

27 sinister   

adj.不吉利的，凶恶的，左边的

参考例句：

• There is something sinister at the back of that series of crimes.在这一系列罪行背后有险恶的阴谋。
• Their proposals are all worthless and designed out of sinister motives.他们的建议不仅一钱不值，而且包藏祸心。

28 conspiracy   

n.阴谋，密谋，共谋

参考例句：

• The men were found guilty of conspiracy to murder.这些人被裁决犯有阴谋杀人罪。
• He claimed that it was all a conspiracy against him.他声称这一切都是一场针对他的阴谋。

29 perfectly   

adv.完美地，无可非议地，彻底地

参考例句：

• The witnesses were each perfectly certain of what they said.证人们个个对自己所说的话十分肯定。
• Everything that we're doing is all perfectly above board.我们做的每件事情都是光明正大的。