美国国家公共电台 NPR Watch: Andrew Yang Explains His 'Freedom Dividend'

 

NOEL KING, HOST:

When you hear a big idea from a presidential candidate, you often want to ask them, wait, how exactly would that work? We've been giving undecided voters a chance to sit down with candidates and go off script, asking them those questions. This past weekend, I went to Midtown Manhattan to Baodega, which is a dumpling shop, to talk to Andrew Yang. Two voters were with us. John Zeitler is an attorney for an insurance company and Hetel Jani runs a nonprofit that's focused on education and mentorship. Yang is a political newcomer. As a young guy, he worked as a party planner and Jani started with a question for him.

HETEL JANI: What's your go-to karaoke song?

ANDREW YANG: "Don't You (Forget About Me)" by Simple Minds from "The Breakfast Club" soundtrack.

JANI: Yeah, very cool.

YANG: And then "When Doves Cry" by Prince would be a close runner-up.

KING: Can you give us a couple bars?

JANI: Can you belt it out? Yeah.

KING: Yeah.

YANG: (Singing) How can you just leave me standing¹? Alone in a world that's so cold...

JOHN ZEITLER: (Laughter) It's like Prince himself is here singing.

JANI: Yeah.

(LAUGHTER)

KING: This is the first time that Yang has run for political office. His signature proposal, the Freedom Dividend², is a form of universal basic income. It would give every American adult a thousand dollars a month from the government - no strings³ attached. Hetel and John wanted to know how that would work and who's going to pay for it.

JANI: How did you come up with a thousand dollars? Because a thousand dollars here in New York City or San Francisco is a lot different than anywhere else. So, as a nonprofit founder⁴, $12,000 a year would go far but it wouldn't go that far.

YANG: But it does make sense on many levels because $12,000 a year is right below the U.S. poverty line. So it moves you up to that level. And this is per adult, mind you. So if you have two adults in your household, it's $24,000 a year. So it moves you up and gets the pressure off, but it doesn't serve as a full work replacement⁵ where there is virtually no American who's like, oh, I'm going to quit my job. We got a thousand bucks⁶ a month. Like, that's not really true. John, here, is like, you know, like not ready to pack it in...

(LAUGHTER)

YANG: ...With a thousand bucks a month because, you know, you have a family like I do. So it's enough to be a game-changer, but it's not meant to be a full work replacement, and it's certainly not meant to solve every problem.

KING: Can I ask you to do some quick math for us?

YANG: Sure.

KING: OK. How many adults in the United States would be eligible⁷ for this $12,000 a year?

YANG: So if you were to take a broad number, about 200 million.

KING: Two hundred million times $12,000 a year...

YANG: 2.4 trillion.

KING: $2.4 trillion a year this would cost - OK. John, I know you have a question...

YANG: (Laughter) OK, yes.

KING: ...About that. Please go ahead.

ZEITLER: Sure. So I think you said that you'd fund it with a VAT⁸ tax, which would - I understand to be a tax, you know, broadly across, you know, consumption of goods, versus⁹ a wealth tax, which would be a tax on, you know, the wealthiest Americans. So you have this great income inequality in the country and it would - it makes sense that you sort of take from those who have the most and even it out and that would seem to point to a wealth tax. So why a VAT tax instead?

YANG: I endorse¹⁰ the spirit of a wealth tax. The problem is that when they try to wealth tax in France, Germany, Denmark, Sweden and a half dozen other countries, they ended up repealing¹¹ it because it didn't generate the revenue they thought it would and they had massive implementation¹² and compliance¹³ problems.

ZEITLER: But isn't a VAT tax essentially¹⁴ regressive, in the sense that everybody's paying the same tax, but if you're poorer that - you know, that dollar means a whole lot more to you, you know, to buy food and, you know, essentials versus a dollar for someone who's a millionaire or billionaire.

YANG: So you're 100% right about everything you're saying. The fundamental challenge we have in the U.S. is that we have this tax system that is being gamed to incredible degrees. So you have a trillion-dollar tech company like Amazon that's now closing 30% of America's stores and malls literally¹⁵ paying zero in taxes. And so you have to look around and say, OK, now that should not be because we're in an era of unprecedented¹⁶ technologies and innovation. Our data is now worth more than oil, as an example. And we're seeing none of that. The companies that are seeing that value are Amazon, Facebook, Google and these mega tech companies.

KING: Let me ask you to define what a value-added tax actually means.

YANG: It's a tax on value transfers, which you can think of as what John said - consumption sales. We can fund this dividend that will make us stronger, healthier, mentally healthier. And if we don't make this kind of move, then we're going to be stuck looking at each other and wondering what the heck happened to our communities as the truck driving gets automated¹⁷, the malls close, the call centers get replaced by bots and software. The fact is we're already decades behind the curve. It has brought us Donald Trump¹⁸. And unless we get our heads up and start solving for the real problems, they're just going to get worse.

JANI: How do you know that the big companies are not going to push that cost - the tax that they're going to be paying - back off onto the consumers? I mean, sure, we can choose how to spend it. And you should be spending it on necessities. But you're going to make people choose, right? You're also seeking to pay for the Freedom Dividend at the cost of other programs.

KING: I think we just need to explain that very briefly¹⁹, and it's an important point. If a family currently is getting welfare payments - SNAP, food stamps, WIC, et cetera - and they're getting $700 a month in welfare, under your system, that would go away. So I think what Hetel is asking is if you're taking away people's welfare payments and replacing it with a thousand dollars, is that enough?

YANG: I see the Freedom Dividend as like a foundation or a floor. And then you don't stop building a house at the floor. (Laughter) That's kind of a crummy house, you know? So first, I would not want to get rid of any existing government programs. I would never be the sort of person that says, like, hey, there are millions of Americans relying upon something. Let's pull a rug out from under them.

KING: I would still keep getting my payments?

YANG: No, so there is an opt²⁰-in. The Freedom Dividend is universal and opt-in. And if you do opt in to the Freedom Dividend, then you do forego benefits that are - from certain programs that are cash and cash-like. But if you are - if you love your current benefits or let's say you're receiving $1,800 in current benefits, then I would never touch it. So that's one thing. So to me, we have to do so much more. I would never suggest that a thousand dollars a month is going to do the work for us.

JANI: In the case that you don't become president, how are you going to continue to work on these ideas to make sure that we're addressing everything we've discussed?

YANG: These problems are going to be with us no matter what. And I'm very confident I'll have a lot of work to do, whether it's as president or in some other capacity. But I'm a parent like you are, John, and I see the future we're leaving for our kids. And I find it to be unacceptable. And so I'm going to work my heart out to try and make it better.

(SOUNDBITE OF RAN THE MAN'S "SUBURBAN²¹ SUNRISE")

KING: That was Andrew Yang and two undecided voters for our series Off Script. You can see more interviews with candidates and watch the video of our entire conversation with Andrew Yang at npr.org/offscript.

1 standing   

n.持续，地位；adj.永久的，不动的，直立的，不流动的

参考例句：

• After the earthquake only a few houses were left standing.地震过后只有几幢房屋还立着。
• They're standing out against any change in the law.他们坚决反对对法律做任何修改。

2 dividend   

n.红利，股息；回报，效益

参考例句：

• The company was forced to pass its dividend.该公司被迫到期不分红。
• The first quarter dividend has been increased by nearly 4 per cent.第一季度的股息增长了近 4%。

3 strings   

n.弦

参考例句：

• He sat on the bed,idly plucking the strings of his guitar.他坐在床上，随意地拨着吉他的弦。
• She swept her fingers over the strings of the harp.她用手指划过竖琴的琴弦。

4 Founder   

n.创始者，缔造者

参考例句：

• He was extolled as the founder of their Florentine school.他被称颂为佛罗伦萨画派的鼻祖。
• According to the old tradition,Romulus was the founder of Rome.按照古老的传说，罗穆卢斯是古罗马的建国者。

5 replacement   

n.取代，替换，交换；替代品，代用品

参考例句：

• We are hard put to find a replacement for our assistant.我们很难找到一个人来代替我们的助手。
• They put all the students through the replacement examination.他们让所有的学生参加分班考试。

6 bucks   

n.雄鹿( buck的名词复数 )；钱；（英国十九世纪初的）花花公子；（用于某些表达方式）责任v.（马等）猛然弓背跃起( buck的第三人称单数 )；抵制；猛然震荡；马等尥起后蹄跳跃

参考例句：

• They cost ten bucks. 这些值十元钱。
• They are hunting for bucks. 他们正在猎雄兔。 来自《简明英汉词典》

7 eligible   

adj.有条件被选中的；(尤指婚姻等)合适(意)的

参考例句：

• He is an eligible young man.他是一个合格的年轻人。
• Helen married an eligible bachelor.海伦嫁给了一个中意的单身汉。

8 vat   

n.(=value added tax)增值税，大桶

参考例句：

• The office is asking for the vat papers.办事处要有关增值税的文件。
• His father emptied sacks of stale rye bread into the vat.他父亲把一袋袋发霉的黑面包倒进大桶里。

9 versus   

prep.以…为对手，对；与…相比之下

参考例句：

• The big match tonight is England versus Spain.今晚的大赛是英格兰对西班牙。
• The most exciting game was Harvard versus Yale.最富紧张刺激的球赛是哈佛队对耶鲁队。

10 endorse   

vt.(支票、汇票等)背书，背署；批注；同意

参考例句：

• No one is foolish enough to endorse it.没有哪个人会傻得赞成它。
• I fully endorse your opinions on this subject.我完全拥护你对此课题的主张。

11 repealing   

撤销，废除( repeal的现在分词 )

参考例句：

• In addition, repealing the alternative minimum tax would also help. 此外，废除替代性最低税也会有所帮助。
• Repealing the investment tax credit. 取消投资税款扣除。

12 implementation   

n.实施，贯彻

参考例句：

• Implementation of the program is now well underway.这一项目的实施现在行情看好。

13 compliance   

n.顺从；服从；附和；屈从

参考例句：

• I was surprised by his compliance with these terms.我对他竟然依从了这些条件而感到吃惊。
• She gave up the idea in compliance with his desire.她顺从他的愿望而放弃自己的主意。

14 essentially   

adv.本质上，实质上，基本上

参考例句：

• Really great men are essentially modest.真正的伟人大都很谦虚。
• She is an essentially selfish person.她本质上是个自私自利的人。

15 literally   

adv.照字面意义，逐字地；确实

参考例句：

• He translated the passage literally.他逐字逐句地翻译这段文字。
• Sometimes she would not sit down till she was literally faint.有时候，她不走到真正要昏厥了，决不肯坐下来。

16 unprecedented   

adj.无前例的，新奇的

参考例句：

• The air crash caused an unprecedented number of deaths.这次空难的死亡人数是空前的。
• A flood of this sort is really unprecedented.这样大的洪水真是十年九不遇。

17 automated   

a.自动化的

参考例句：

• The entire manufacturing process has been automated. 整个生产过程已自动化。
• Automated Highway System (AHS) is recently regarded as one subsystem of Intelligent Transport System (ITS). 近年来自动公路系统(Automated Highway System,AHS)，作为智能运输系统的子系统之一越来越受到重视。

18 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

19 briefly   

adv.简单地，简短地

参考例句：

• I want to touch briefly on another aspect of the problem.我想简单地谈一下这个问题的另一方面。
• He was kidnapped and briefly detained by a terrorist group.他被一个恐怖组织绑架并短暂拘禁。

20 opt   

vi.选择，决定做某事

参考例句：

• They opt for more holiday instead of more pay.他们选择了延长假期而不是增加工资。
• Will individual schools be given the right to opt out of the local school authority?各个学校可能有权选择退出地方教育局吗？

21 suburban   

adj.城郊的，在郊区的

参考例句：

• Suburban shopping centers were springing up all over America. 效区的商业中心在美国如雨后春笋般地兴起。
• There's a lot of good things about suburban living.郊区生活是有许多优点。