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Apocalyptic¹ devastation² — that's how a local Italian governor described Venice, as the highest tide in 50 years flooded the city of canals. St. Mark's Basilica, the city's most recognizable and most visited and most loved church, is also one of the city's hardest-hit sites. Its square this past week was more pool than plaza³, and the flooding may have caused hundreds of millions of euros' worth of damage.

We're joined now by Pierpaolo Campostrini. He sits on the procuratorial of St. Mark, the board that helps manage and protect the church. Welcome.

PIERPAOLO CAMPOSTRINI: Thank you very much for calling me.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: So tell me the condition the church is in now.

CAMPOSTRINI: We cleaned up all the flooded pavements. We take out the water from the crypt. However, the salt is acting⁴ behind the marble, and the salt stay inside. So the water go out, but the salt stay inside. And the crystallization of salt breaks the brick, and also, it can pass through the marble. So deterioration⁵ is progressive.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: So what I'm understanding is that, if I was a tourist and I went, it would look nice, but that the salt is really corrosive⁶. How do you protect from that? What is the next step, since this has been cumulative⁷?

CAMPOSTRINI: I mean, there are a few things that we can do for the bricks. When they are too salty, we have simply to substitute them for the marble. We put the marble inside of these pools of fresh water, and we cleaned it with a repetitive cycle of fresh water.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Local politicians there have blamed this latest cycle of severe flooding on climate change. We know that Venice has been subject to this for a very long time but that it will only get worse. What is being done to protect the church and other important places? I mean, this church has been there since 1100.

CAMPOSTRINI: The idea is to build a barrier on the island which separates the sea from the lagoon⁸. It is a huge project because this project cost more than 6 billion euro but has not been completed. That's been completed till the 90%, but if it is not completely 100%, simply, it doesn't work.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Many people say that this project has been delayed because of mismanagement, corruption⁹, and that there's a lot of anger over that. I mean, is it something that you're concerned about?

CAMPOSTRINI: It might be. Yes, of course, there have been also some corruption. But now, since five years when the court discovered this corruption, there are more lawyers working than engineers, and this is bad.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: It is indeed. What are people there saying? How are they feeling as the floodwaters keep coming?

CAMPOSTRINI: People presently are shock because this flooding was not expected. I saw people crying because they lost their refrigerator where the gelato is sold. But there's also a little angry against the politicians which allow these things to happen.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: What happens if the basilica is hopelessly inundated¹⁰? Have you discussed moving some of the art, the holy relics¹¹ away from Venice?

CAMPOSTRINI: No. We have to work for defending Venice in Venice. We have an idea that a barrier can be built around the basilica in order not to allow the water to come in. The basilica is there more than that 90 — 50 years, and I believe that it must be there for many years to come.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And just finally, I'd like to know just your personal feelings for something that you're vowing¹² to protect to see what's happening.

CAMPOSTRINI: At the beginning, I was very, very sad because it is difficult to see the kind of pressure that is occurring to the basilica, this old lady, over 900 years. This is something that, if you would be there, you should have cried with me.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Pierpaolo Campostrini of the procuratorial of St. Mark. Thank you very much.

CAMPOSTRINI: Thank you.

世界末日般的灾难——这是意大利一名州长对威尼斯现状的形容，因为50年来最严重的涨潮淹没了威尼斯这座运河城市。圣马可大教堂是威尼斯最著名、游览人数最多、最受喜爱的教堂，也是该市受灾最严重的地方。过去这周，圣马可广场更像是池塘而不是广场，这场洪灾可能已经造成了数亿美元的损失。

下面皮耶保罗·卡姆波斯特里尼将和我们连线。他在圣马可大教堂的代理机构工作，该机构帮助管理并保护大教堂。欢迎你。

皮耶保罗·卡姆波斯特里尼：非常谢谢你们和我连线。

加西亚·纳瓦罗：请介绍一下大教堂目前的情况。

卡姆波斯特里尼：我们清理了所有被淹的车道。我们排出了教堂地下室的积水。然而，盐分还留在里面，而盐会对大理石造成影响。也就是说，我们将积水排出，但盐分却留在了里面。盐的结晶作用会破坏砖的结构，而且盐可以穿过大理石。因此，恶化是逐渐发生的。

加西亚·纳瓦罗：我的理解是，如果我是游客，我会看到大教堂表面很美好，但是盐的腐蚀性很强。那你们要如何保护大教堂不受腐蚀？既然这是累积效应，那你们下一步计划怎么做？

卡姆波斯特里尼：我们可以采取一些措施来保护砖结构。如果盐化过于严重，我们就会换掉这些大理石。我们将大理石放进清水池中，然后用重复循环的清水进行清洗。

加西亚·纳瓦罗：当地政治家将最新一轮洪灾归咎于气候变化。我们知道威尼斯很长时间以来一直在遭受洪水侵袭，而且情况只会越来越严重。人们计划为保护这座大教堂和其他重要地方采取哪些措施？毕竟，这座教堂在1100年就已经建成了。

卡姆波斯特里尼：计划是在岛上修建一个屏障，隔开海水和潟湖。这项巨大的工程耗资超过60亿欧元，但现在还没有完工。工程可能已经完成90%，但如果不是100%完工，那就没有任何作用。

加西亚·纳瓦罗：许多人认为导致这项工程延误的原因是管理不善和腐败，大家都对此感到愤怒。这是你担心的问题吗？

卡姆波斯特里尼：可能是。当然，的确存在腐败。不过，五年前法庭已经发现了腐败问题，而现在这项工程的律师比工程师还要多，这太糟糕了。

加西亚·纳瓦罗：的确很糟糕。民众怎么说？他们对洪灾不断发生有何想法？

卡姆波斯特里尼：现在人们非常震惊，因为这场洪灾出乎意料。我看到有人在哭泣，因为他们失去了售卖意大利冰激凌的冰箱。而且，人们对放任这种事情发生的政治人物也感到愤怒。

加西亚·纳瓦罗：如果大教堂完全被淹没会怎样？你们有讨论过将艺术品和神圣遗迹移出威尼斯吗？

卡姆波斯特里尼：没有。我们必须努力保护威尼斯的一切。我们计划在大教堂周围设立屏障，以阻止洪水进入。大教堂已经矗立了几百年，我相信它还会存在很多年。

加西亚·纳瓦罗：最后一个问题，我想知道在看到你誓要保护的东西遭遇这一切时，你的个人感受是什么。

卡姆波斯特里尼：一开始，我非常难过，因为很难想象这座历史超过900年的大教堂面临的压力。如果你在那里，你也会和我一起哭泣的。

加西亚·纳瓦罗：以上是在圣马可大教堂代理机构工作的皮耶保罗·卡姆波斯特里尼进行的介绍。非常谢谢你。

卡姆波斯特里尼：谢谢。