美国国家公共电台 NPR--普京称对乌克兰的袭击是自卫行为

Putin describes the attack on Ukraine as an act of self-defense

Transcript¹

NPR's Rachel Martin talks to Russia military expert Jeffrey Edmonds, who formerly² served as the director for Russia at the National Security Council, about the country's military capabilities³.

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:

Let's turn now to Jeffrey Edmonds, whose research focuses on the Russian military. He was director for Russia at the National Security Council in 2017. Thank you so much for joining us this morning.

JEFFREY EDMONDS: Thank you for having me.

MARTIN: Russia's president, Vladimir Putin, is calling this an act of self-defense. How can he justify⁴ that?

EDMONDS: I think - there are so many different false flag operations in the east. I mean, it's really quite remarkable⁵ that almost everything we were seeing in the east leading up until yesterday were completely fabricated events. And so there really is no justification⁶ given the size of the military operation and the fact that he's practically invading half the country at this point.

MARTIN: He's talking about denazification. What does that mean in this context?

EDMONDS: The Russian leadership have often used references to Nazi⁷ forces as a way of demonizing whoever it is they're targeting, whether that's through information against the Baltic states or what have you. And so this is just kind of a common phrase used by him to really kind of demonize elements of the Ukrainian population and provide even more false justification for what he's doing.

MARTIN: And the Russians accept that, the larger Russian population.

EDMONDS: It's hard to say. I mean, there's - you know, they're saying that everybody in Russia lost somebody to the Nazis⁸. And so the - World War II is much more present, I would say, in their minds than, for example, in the United States of each common person. And so it may resonate some. I don't think that large portions of the population actually believe that denazification is something that needs to happen to Ukraine.

MARTIN: Ukraine has invested a lot of money and resources into its military since Russia took Crimea in 2014. Are they any more capable of pushing Russia back now?

EDMONDS: I don't - they really stand a very hard task in front of them. The Russian military is much more superior in terms of equipment and training and size. I mean, over 70% of the Russian military is now engaged in some way in this operation. And so they have improved since 2014, but it's going to be really hard to actually push Russian forces back.

MARTIN: President Zelenskyy is urging people to take up arms, civilians⁹, and we've seen training programs like that. Are we looking at urban warfare¹⁰?

EDMONDS: We might be, and that's one of the big unknowns here is what kind of insurgent¹¹ or - you know, what kind of resistance movement we're actually going to see. I mean, this isn't Afghanistan or Iraq. So it's hard - it's really hard to say what actually - you know, how much you can motivate somebody to get off the couch, grab an, you know, a anti-tank weapon and go out in the streets and start shooting people. But this is a big unknown and really could complicate¹² Russian operations.

MARTIN: Putin gave this video address, released this video address before the attack, and in it, he said, quote, "anyone who tries to interfere¹³ with us must know that Russia's response will be immediate¹⁴ and will lead you to such consequences as you have never experienced in your history." What will those consequences look like?

EDMONDS: I think what he's trying to do is control escalation¹⁵, right? He's trying to over-escalate in order to get us to back away. And he would - it would not surprise me if he starts referring to nuclear weapons or all-out war, things like that, like he's done in the past as a way of trying to up the ante and, really, you know, give us pause in any kind of assistance we would give Ukraine.

MARTIN: I mean, does that work? Is that likely to compel the U.S. and NATO allies to make a concession¹⁶ about either Ukraine's status as a potential member of NATO or reducing the Western footprint of forces along the eastern flank in Europe?

EDMONDS: I don't think so. I mean, I think, you know, while we've been very careful to not make - take actions that would, you know, bring about a war between NATO and Russia, at the same time, we're bolstering¹⁷ our military there. And all of the things that Putin had pushed against, like an open-door policy and NATO expansion, all - that conversation is done now. He's actually strengthened NATO by invading Ukraine.

MARTIN: President Biden said in recent weeks that if Russia were to go ahead with this, with an invasion of Ukraine, as we have now seen, it would, quote, "change the world." Does the world look different to you today?

EDMONDS: It does, to a degree. I mean, what he is trying to do is change the security architecture in Europe. And, you know, in his mind, he's trying to rectify¹⁸ a really sour deal that Russia received at the end of the Cold War. And I think we just haven't seen one country invade another country that really had no intent on attacking Russia. And so I think this is kind of a new dark thing that we're seeing on the continent.

MARTIN: Jeffrey Edmonds, Russia military expert with the Center for Naval¹⁹ Analyses, thank you so much. We appreciate your perspective this morning.

EDMONDS: Thanks for having me.

(SOUNDBITE OF MO RANA'S "MEASURE")

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 formerly   

adv.从前，以前

参考例句：

• We now enjoy these comforts of which formerly we had only heard.我们现在享受到了过去只是听说过的那些舒适条件。
• This boat was formerly used on the rivers of China.这船从前航行在中国内河里。

3 capabilities   

n.能力( capability的名词复数 )；可能；容量；[复数]潜在能力

参考例句：

• He was somewhat pompous and had a high opinion of his own capabilities. 他有点自大，自视甚高。 来自辞典例句
• Some programmers use tabs to break complex product capabilities into smaller chunks. 一些程序员认为，标签可以将复杂的功能分为每个窗格一组简单的功能。 来自About Face 3交互设计精髓

4 justify   

vt.证明…正当(或有理)，为…辩护

参考例句：

• He tried to justify his absence with lame excuses.他想用站不住脚的借口为自己的缺席辩解。
• Can you justify your rude behavior to me?你能向我证明你的粗野行为是有道理的吗？

5 remarkable   

adj.显著的，异常的，非凡的，值得注意的

参考例句：

• She has made remarkable headway in her writing skills.她在写作技巧方面有了长足进步。
• These cars are remarkable for the quietness of their engines.这些汽车因发动机没有噪音而不同凡响。

6 justification   

n.正当的理由；辩解的理由

参考例句：

• There's no justification for dividing the company into smaller units. 没有理由把公司划分成小单位。
• In the young there is a justification for this feeling. 在年轻人中有这种感觉是有理由的。

7 Nazi   

n.纳粹分子，adj.纳粹党的，纳粹的

参考例句：

• They declare the Nazi regime overthrown and sue for peace.他们宣布纳粹政权已被推翻，并出面求和。
• Nazi closes those war criminals inside their concentration camp.纳粹把那些战犯关在他们的集中营里。

8 Nazis   

n.（德国的）纳粹党员( Nazi的名词复数 )；纳粹主义

参考例句：

• The Nazis worked them over with gun butts. 纳粹分子用枪托毒打他们。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The Nazis were responsible for the mass murder of Jews during World War Ⅱ. 纳粹必须为第二次世界大战中对犹太人的大屠杀负责。 来自《简明英汉词典》

9 civilians   

平民，百姓( civilian的名词复数 )； 老百姓

参考例句：

• the bloody massacre of innocent civilians 对无辜平民的血腥屠杀
• At least 300 civilians are unaccounted for after the bombing raids. 遭轰炸袭击之后，至少有300名平民下落不明。

10 warfare   

n.战争(状态)；斗争；冲突

参考例句：

• He addressed the audience on the subject of atomic warfare.他向听众演讲有关原子战争的问题。
• Their struggle consists mainly in peasant guerrilla warfare.他们的斗争主要是农民游击战。

11 insurgent   

adj.叛乱的，起事的；n.叛乱分子

参考例句：

• Faruk says they are threatened both by insurgent and government forces.法鲁克说，他们受到暴乱分子和政府军队的双重威胁。
• The insurgent mob assembled at the gate of the city park.叛变的暴徒聚在市立公园的门口。

12 complicate   

vt.使复杂化，使混乱，使难懂

参考例句：

• There is no need to complicate matters.没有必要使问题复杂化。
• These events will greatly complicate the situation.这些事件将使局势变得极其复杂。

13 interfere   

v.(in)干涉，干预；(with)妨碍，打扰

参考例句：

• If we interfere, it may do more harm than good.如果我们干预的话，可能弊多利少。
• When others interfere in the affair,it always makes troubles. 别人一卷入这一事件，棘手的事情就来了。

14 immediate   

adj.立即的；直接的，最接近的；紧靠的

参考例句：

• His immediate neighbours felt it their duty to call.他的近邻认为他们有责任去拜访。
• We declared ourselves for the immediate convocation of the meeting.我们主张立即召开这个会议。

15 escalation   

n.扩大，增加

参考例句：

• The threat of nuclear escalation remains. 核升级的威胁仍旧存在。 来自辞典例句
• Escalation is thus an aspect of deterrence and of crisis management. 因此逐步升级是威慑和危机处理的一个方面。 来自辞典例句

16 concession   

n.让步，妥协；特许(权)

参考例句：

• We can not make heavy concession to the matter.我们在这个问题上不能过于让步。
• That is a great concession.这是很大的让步。

17 bolstering   

v.支持( bolster的现在分词 )；支撑；给予必要的支持；援助

参考例句：

• Why should Donahue's people concern themselves with bolstering your image? 唐纳休的人为什么要费心维护你的形象？ 来自辞典例句
• He needed bolstering and support. 他需要别人助他一臂之力。 来自辞典例句

18 rectify   

v.订正，矫正，改正

参考例句：

• The matter will rectify itself in a few days.那件事过几天就会变好。
• You can rectify this fault if you insert a slash.插人一条斜线便可以纠正此错误。

19 naval   

adj.海军的，军舰的，船的

参考例句：

• He took part in a great naval battle.他参加了一次大海战。
• The harbour is an important naval base.该港是一个重要的海军基地。