PBS高端访谈:美国前大使对"曲线的"叙利亚政策进行批判

 　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Our chief foreign affairs correspondent, Margaret Warner sat down with Ford¹ today, on the first day he has agreed to be interviewed on television since his departure, to discuss the election and what he sees as the failures of U.S. policy.

　　MARGARET WARNER: Ambassador Ford, thank you for joining us.

　　ROBERT FORD, Former U.S. Ambassador to Syria: It's my pleasure to be here.

　　MARGARET WARNER: So, President Assad seems to be coasting to another victory in an election. What's going to be the impact of that, both on the political situation and the battlefield situation?

　　ROBERT FORD: I don't think it will have much impact on the battlefield. I have no indication that the opposition² and the armed opposition groups are going to stop fighting, so I think the election will have no result on that.

　　Politically, it will cheer Assad's supporters. I have seen pictures today of celebrations in Syria. But it really is simply a signal. The election is a signal to us to, to other countries in the region, to Europe, et cetera, that Assad is not leaving, he is staying, deeply entrenched³ in the capital in Syria, even as other parts of the country remain outside his control.

　　MARGARET WARNER: And so is it time for us to recognize that, in fact, he's going to be there a long time, that the whole strategy both of the opposition and the Western- and Gulf- and neighbor-backed efforts has not worked?

　　ROBERT FORD: Well, certainly, the efforts we have made to date have not worked. They have not put enough pressure on the regime on the ground.

　　And that's why the peace talks that we tried to do in January and February in Geneva, when I was there, and the regime completely refused to discuss a political settlement. The policy has not brought them to the point where they feel they have to negotiate. They're not under enough pressure. So, so we need to think about how to escalate⁴ pressure.

　　MARGARET WARNER: And certainly not a transition that didn't include Assad as a part of it?

　　ROBERT FORD: Well, the message of the election today is that he's not going anywhere.

　　MARGARET WARNER: You left as ambassador in early 2012.

　　ROBERT FORD: In February, right.

　　MARGARET WARNER: Under fears for your own safety and the safety of the entire embassy.

　　ROBERT FORD: Safety of the team, yes.

　　MARGARET WARNER: But you stayed at the State Department. Why have you left now?

　　ROBERT FORD: In the end, Margaret, I worked from Washington on the Syria issue for two years.

　　Events on the ground were moving, and our policy wasn't evolving very quickly. We were constantly behind the curve. And that's why now we have extremist threats to our own country. We had a young man from Florida, apparently⁵, who was involved in a suicide bombing, and there will be more problems like that, I fear.

　　Our policy wasn't evolving, and finally I got to the point where I could no longer defend it publicly. And as a professional career member of the U.S. diplomatic service, when I can no longer defend the policy in public, it is time for me to go.

　　MARGARET WARNER: What was the biggest mistake you think the Obama administration, this government made?

　　ROBERT FORD: We have consistently been behind the curve.

　　The events on the ground are moving more rapidly than our policy has been adapting. And at the same time, Russia and Iran have been driving this by increasing and steadily⁶ increasing, increasing massively, especially the Iranians, their support to the Syrian regime.

　　And the result of that has been more threats to us in this ungoverned space which Assad can't retake. We need and we have long needed to help moderates in the Syrian opposition with both weapons and other nonlethal assistance. Had we done that a couple of years ago, had we ramped⁸ it up, frankly⁹, the al-Qaida groups that have been winning adherents¹⁰ would have been unable to compete with the moderates, who, frankly, we have much in common with.

　　But the moderates have been fighting constantly with arms tied behind their backs, because they don't have the same resources that either Assad does or the al-Qaida groups in Syria do.

　　MARGARET WARNER: But you know the arguments we all heard from many in the White House, which is, if we arm the opposition, we don't know who will get ahold of these advanced weapons.

　　ROBERT FORD: I have heard those arguments, Margaret.

　　To be very frank, we have plenty of information on reliable groups, and we have long had that. It is a question of whether or not there's a will to actually help people whose agenda is compatible with our national security interests, and then to make a decision and push forward. And that really is the question before the administration.

　　MARGARET WARNER: And who lacks the will? Is it the president?

　　ROBERT FORD: I'm simply going to say that I think it's on record now that the State Department, for a long time, has advocated doing much more to help the moderates in the Syrian opposition, these moderates, by the way, who evolved directly from the peaceful protest movement that I saw with my own eyes in 2011.

　　And those people need more help. And arguments that were worried things are going to trickle¹¹ into bad hands or that it's going to bring in American troops directly, nobody is asking for American troops to be sent there. I was in Iraq for five years. The last thing we want is to have a repeat of the Iraq experience.

　　But there are other tools in our toolkit, and those are the things we need to work on, in conjunction with our allies in the region.

　　MARGARET WARNER: Now, President Obama in his West Point speech last week said he was going to ramp⁷ up support to the opposition, but it was left totally unspecified. What did that say to you? What does that mean?

　　ROBERT FORD: It's not clear to me yet if they are prepared to ramp it up in such a way that it will be meaningful on the ground, and that's really what matters. This is a civil war.

　　And we can't get to a political negotiation¹² until the balance on the ground compels — and I use that word precisely¹³ — compels Assad not to run sham¹⁴ elections, but rather to negotiate a political deal. But the situation on the ground is key.

　　MARGARET WARNER: Do you think it's too late at this point?

　　ROBERT FORD: No, I absolutely don't, but I do think that the way the policy has been moving has been so slow on our part.

　　And that has caused frustration¹⁵ in the region. It's caused huge frustration among large segments of the Syrian population. And so I'm hoping that the president's speech signals that now we are getting more serious. But we will have to see what happens on the ground.

　　MARGARET WARNER: And if this conflict continues for years as it is now, does that increase the terrorist threat here to the United States?

　　ROBERT FORD: I think it can't help but do that, because there's large parts of Syria that are basically ungoverned.

　　And just as happened in Afghanistan, just as happened in Somalia, just as has happened in Mali and Yemen, when you have large ungoverned spaces, groups especially like al-Qaida are quite skilled at setting up operations there, and then sending out people, sending out resources, sending out money, coordinating¹⁶.

　　It's very dangerous. We warned about this years ago on the Syria team at the State Department. This is — we expected this was going to happen.

　　MARGARET WARNER: But the warnings went unheeded?

　　ROBERT FORD: The policy has evolved very slowly. And events on the ground have not evolved as slowly. Events on the ground, it's a dynamic situation. It changes.

　　MARGARET WARNER: Ambassador Robert Ford, thank you.

　　ROBERT FORD: No, it was my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: This afternoon, State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf was asked about Ambassador Ford's criticisms of the administration's Syria policy and why it compelled him to leave government.

　　Here is an excerpt¹⁷ of her response from the daily press briefing.

　　MARIE HARF, State Department Spokeswoman: Ambassador Ford served a very long, distinguished¹⁸ career here, is now a private citizen, obviously entitled to his own views.

　　The president was clear in his speech last week. We have all been clear that we're frustrated¹⁹ by the situation in Syria. You heard the president at West Point say we're going to increase our support to the moderate opposition, because we know more needs to be done.

　　No one working on this issue can look at the situation on the ground — I mean, just look at today, the photos — disgusting photos of President Assad voting, acting²⁰ like this is a real election. Nobody working on it is happy with where things are. We're all frustrated, and I think you heard some of that in Ambassador Ford's comments.

　　GWEN IFILL: That was U.S. State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf.

1 Ford   

n.浅滩，水浅可涉处；v.涉水，涉过

参考例句：

• They were guarding the bridge,so we forded the river.他们驻守在那座桥上，所以我们只能涉水过河。
• If you decide to ford a stream,be extremely careful.如果已决定要涉过小溪，必须极度小心。

2 opposition   

n.反对，敌对

参考例句：

• The party leader is facing opposition in his own backyard.该党领袖在自己的党內遇到了反对。
• The police tried to break down the prisoner's opposition.警察设法制住了那个囚犯的反抗。

3 entrenched   

adj.确立的，不容易改的(风俗习惯)

参考例句：

• Television seems to be firmly entrenched as the number one medium for national advertising.电视看来要在全国广告媒介中牢固地占据头等位置。
• If the enemy dares to attack us in these entrenched positions,we will make short work of them.如果敌人胆敢进攻我们固守的阵地，我们就消灭他们。

4 escalate   

v.(使)逐步增长(或发展)，(使)逐步升级

参考例句：

• It would tempt Israel's neighbors to escalate their demands.它将诱使以色列的邻国不断把他们的要求升级。
• Defeat could cause one side or other to escalate the conflict.失败可能会导致其中一方将冲突升级。

5 apparently   

adv.显然地；表面上，似乎

参考例句：

• An apparently blind alley leads suddenly into an open space.山穷水尽，豁然开朗。
• He was apparently much surprised at the news.他对那个消息显然感到十分惊异。

6 steadily   

adv.稳定地；不变地；持续地

参考例句：

• The scope of man's use of natural resources will steadily grow.人类利用自然资源的广度将日益扩大。
• Our educational reform was steadily led onto the correct path.我们的教学改革慢慢上轨道了。

7 ramp   

n.暴怒，斜坡，坡道；vi.作恐吓姿势，暴怒，加速；vt.加速

参考例句：

• That driver drove the car up the ramp.那司机将车开上了斜坡。
• The factory don't have that capacity to ramp up.这家工厂没有能力加速生产。

8 ramped   

土堤斜坡( ramp的过去式和过去分词 )； 斜道； 斜路； （装车或上下飞机的）活动梯

参考例句：

• With the arrival of George Lucas, the pace has ramped up. 随着乔治·卢卡斯的到来，速度大大加快。
• They also sold corporate bonds as the global financial crisis ramped up. 在全球金融危机加剧之际，他们还抛售了公司债券。

9 frankly   

adv.坦白地，直率地；坦率地说

参考例句：

• To speak frankly, I don't like the idea at all.老实说，我一点也不赞成这个主意。
• Frankly speaking, I'm not opposed to reform.坦率地说，我不反对改革。

10 adherents   

n.支持者，拥护者( adherent的名词复数 )；党羽；徒子徒孙

参考例句：

• He is a leader with many adherents. 他是个有众多追随者的领袖。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The proposal is gaining more and more adherents. 该建议得到越来越多的支持者。 来自《简明英汉词典》

11 trickle   

vi.淌，滴，流出，慢慢移动，逐渐消散

参考例句：

• The stream has thinned down to a mere trickle.这条小河变成细流了。
• The flood of cars has now slowed to a trickle.汹涌的车流现在已经变得稀稀拉拉。

12 negotiation   

n.谈判，协商

参考例句：

• They closed the deal in sugar after a week of negotiation.经过一星期的谈判，他们的食糖生意成交了。
• The negotiation dragged on until July.谈判一直拖到7月份。

13 precisely   

adv.恰好，正好，精确地，细致地

参考例句：

• It's precisely that sort of slick sales-talk that I mistrust.我不相信的正是那种油腔滑调的推销宣传。
• The man adjusted very precisely.那个人调得很准。

14 sham   

n./adj.假冒(的)，虚伪(的)

参考例句：

• They cunningly played the game of sham peace.他们狡滑地玩弄假和平的把戏。
• His love was a mere sham.他的爱情是虚假的。

15 frustration   

n.挫折，失败，失效，落空

参考例句：

• He had to fight back tears of frustration.他不得不强忍住失意的泪水。
• He beat his hands on the steering wheel in frustration.他沮丧地用手打了几下方向盘。

16 coordinating   

v.使协调，使调和( coordinate的现在分词 )；协调；协同；成为同等

参考例句：

• He abolished the Operations Coordinating Board and the Planning Board. 他废除了行动协调委员会和计划委员会。 来自辞典例句
• He's coordinating the wedding, and then we're not going to invite him? 他是来协调婚礼的，难道我们不去请他？ 来自电影对白

17 excerpt   

n.摘录，选录，节录

参考例句：

• This is an excerpt from a novel.这是一部小说的摘录。
• Can you excerpt something from the newspaper? 你能从报纸上选录些东西吗？

18 distinguished   

adj.卓越的，杰出的，著名的

参考例句：

• Elephants are distinguished from other animals by their long noses.大象以其长长的鼻子显示出与其他动物的不同。
• A banquet was given in honor of the distinguished guests.宴会是为了向贵宾们致敬而举行的。

19 frustrated   

adj.挫败的，失意的，泄气的v.使不成功( frustrate的过去式和过去分词 )；挫败；使受挫折；令人沮丧

参考例句：

• It's very easy to get frustrated in this job. 这个工作很容易令人懊恼。
• The bad weather frustrated all our hopes of going out. 恶劣的天气破坏了我们出行的愿望。 来自《简明英汉词典》

20 acting   

n.演戏，行为，假装；adj.代理的，临时的，演出用的

参考例句：

• Ignore her,she's just acting.别理她，她只是假装的。
• During the seventies,her acting career was in eclipse.在七十年代，她的表演生涯黯然失色。