PBS高端访谈:不断地煽动是中东暴力冲突剧增的根源所在吗?

 　　JUDY WOODRUFF: We now turn to two longtime Palestinian-Israeli watchers. Dennis Ross was a U.S. diplomat¹ and Middle East envoy² who served in the George H.W. Bush, Clinton and Obama administrations. He's now a counselor³ at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. And Shibley Telhami is the Anwar Sadat professor of peace and development at the University of Maryland. He's also a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, and the author of the book "The World Through Arab Eyes."

　　We welcome you both.

　　Shibley Telhami, to you first.

　　Worst violence in Jerusalem in six years. Why has the situation deteriorated⁴?

　　SHIBLEY TELHAMI, University of Maryland: You know, we were talking about this just before the Gaza war, and I suggested that we're maybe upon a third intifada.

　　I think we're there already. This is the third intifada. And Jerusalem is really the most potent⁵ mobilizer, not just among Palestinians, but beyond Palestine in the Arab world and Muslim world. It's there. We see it. It's been awful.

　　Now, what we see is really horrific. Obviously. what happened ought to be condemned⁷ by anyone, leaders and public. But what we need to understand is when you lose hope, when there's nothing there, both on the Israeli and Palestinian side, hearts harden.

　　And in polling I did among Palestinians, among Israelis how they react to civilian⁸ casualties in conflict, the first reaction is not empathy with the other. The first reaction is, they brought it upon themselves, when they don't think peace is going to happen and conflict is coming. It's really a function of the loss of hope.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Dennis Ross, how do you see it? Why do you think the situation has gotten to this point?

　　DENNIS ROSS, Former U.S. Envoy to Middle East: Well, I do think there's not just a loss of hope. I think there's actually a disbelief on each side that peace is even a possibility.

　　I also think there's been an ongoing⁹ demonization, and it's — it's simply unrealistic to assume that you can have ongoing demonization, and not have a consequence of it. So, I do think there's been more incitement¹¹ of late, and that incitement I think creates a context.

　　Look, what we saw today was an attack on a religious site where people were praying. They were attacked because they were Jews who were praying. And it's simply unacceptable. But it also highlights specifically this kind of demonization. And steps have to be taken to stop the demonizations. Steps have to be taken to defuse the reality.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: What do you mean by demonization? Who is doing the demonization and whom are they demonizing?

　　DENNIS ROSS: Well, certainly there is. What Secretary Kerry referred to was incitement on the Palestinian side.

　　There's no doubt that's taken place. When you, in a sense, as President Abbas did — even though he condemned this action, President Abbas also gave a speech where he spoke¹² about the possibility of a holy war because of contamination, Jewish contamination of the Noble Sanctuary¹³. That's not the sort of thing that's going to defuse tensions.

　　And I would say when you pay people who are terrorists, that sort of contributes, I think, to a certain reality where this is somehow condoned¹⁴, even while you criticize the act. It isn't to say that the Israelis haven't done things as well as it relates to those who want to go up and change the status quo on the Temple Mount or what the Arabs see as the Noble Sanctuary.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Shibley Telhami, a couple of things that were raised there, but what about his statement that there's been incitement on the Palestinian side and that President Abbas is blaming the wrong people?

　　SHIBLEY TELHAMI: First of all, When have you a horrific attack, it ought to be condemned, no ifs and buts. This is absolutely unacceptable under any circumstances.

　　Put that aside for a minute. The question is whether what the Palestinians are doing or saying is really — or the Palestinian leaders or Abu Mazen is saying is really the reason for why these things happen.

　　There's no connection whatsoever¹⁵, in my opinion. Here's why. For one thing, people aren't even listening to him anymore. And we don't understand that incitement — and I served on an anti-incitement committee, as Dennis would remember, during the negotiations¹⁶ in the 1990s on the American side, trying to reduce incitement.

　　Incitement itself is a function of how much belief there is in the possibility of peace or conflict. People essentially¹⁷ incite¹⁰ when they think conflict is coming. It's not a function of what people say. People will disregard Mahmoud Abbas, regardless of whether he says — what he says is right or wrong.

　　This is not a function of it. And people who are carrying these out are people who don't even care about Mahmoud Abbas, whether they're on — Islamists or ultra-leftists.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Dennis Ross, he's saying that it doesn't matter what the leaders are saying, that it's what people feel at street level.

　　DENNIS ROSS: Look, A, there's a context that exists. B, leaders contribute to that context. C, the fact is, when there's a constant demonization, when you watch Palestinian TV, or when you listen to Palestinian radio, as your report indicated, that the Palestinian radio was lauding¹⁸ what had taken place, when there's that kind of a context that is perpetuated¹⁹, it creates a reality.

　　Yes, there's a lot of anger out there. And that anger is obviously contributing to this. But the fact is, you have leaders who have to step in — step up and say, this is wrong. There's no justification²⁰ for this kind of action. And you have to deal with what I think is a reality where the effort to demonize and dehumanize the other side makes it a lot more — makes it a lot more plausible²¹ than in fact these kind of actions take place and somehow are accepted.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Do you want to respond?

　　SHIBLEY TELHAMI: Well, you know, first of all, if I were a leader, I would condemn⁶ it with no ifs and buts, undoubtedly²². Put that aside.

　　But to think that what that leader's going to say is going to be the reason why people are going to do or not do the thing, when they're facing settlements in Jerusalem that they think are illegitimate and illegal, in comparison to what Mahmoud Abbas will say or not say, the weight here is — is in the wrong place.

　　The weight is — their anger is not derived²³ from what the Palestinian leader is going to say. It's derived from what they live every single day. That's what the anger is.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: And you're saying what the Israelis are doing.

　　SHIBLEY TELHAMI: What the Israelis are doing and how Palestinians see it in East Jerusalem in particular.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Let me ask both of you…

　　SHIBLEY TELHAMI: And let's just remember one more thing, that this is taking place in East Jerusalem. And the Palestinian president doesn't have really hardly any control over issues. It's under Israeli control.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: In just the little time that we have left, Dennis Ross, what is it going to take to stop this? Is it intervention²⁴ from the outside or are we spiraling to a — spiraling to a third intifada, as Shibley said a few minutes ago?

　　DENNIS ROSS: Well, I'm worried that this is taking on a life of its own, and I am worried as well that these are East Jerusalemites.

　　If you go back to the second intifada, there were bombings in Jerusalem, but they were not carried out by East Jerusalemites. It's worrisome that you see that they're doing this. There's a climate and there's frustration²⁵. I think what's required, it's not so much external intervention, although I do think what Secretary Kerry did last week, meeting President Abbas separately in Amman, seeing the prime minister of Israel and the king of Jordan, and trying to ensure that actions that were being taken and what was being said about the actions that were being taken on the Temple Mount or on the Noble Sanctuary, that you defuse this, you take steps to try to reduce the tensions.

　　I think right now leaders on both sides have a responsibility to do everything they can to avoid what are provocative²⁶ acts. To assume that leaders can't have an impact is to ignore that the role that leaders have is to affect what the realities are.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Shibley Telhami, your response.

　　SHIBLEY TELHAMI: Well, I think we have it a third intifada under way.

　　And I think a lot of people don't understand it because it doesn't look like 1987, it doesn't look like 2000. This is going to be a hybrid²⁷. We are going to have the lone²⁸ wolf attack. We're going to have the militant²⁹ Islamists. We might have extremists on the left.

　　And it's going to combine, unfortunately, violence, but also peaceful attempts by a lot of the mainstream³⁰. But it's here. I don't think it's going to go away.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: It's grim.

　　Shibley Telhami, Dennis Ross, we thank you.

　　SHIBLEY TELHAMI: My pleasure.

　　DENNIS ROSS: Thank you.

1 diplomat   

n.外交官，外交家；能交际的人，圆滑的人

参考例句：

• The diplomat threw in a joke, and the tension was instantly relieved.那位外交官插进一个笑话，紧张的气氛顿时缓和下来。
• He served as a diplomat in Russia before the war.战前他在俄罗斯当外交官。

2 envoy   

n.使节，使者，代表，公使

参考例句：

• Their envoy showed no sign of responding to our proposals.他们的代表对我方的提议毫无回应的迹象。
• The government has not yet appointed an envoy to the area.政府尚未向这一地区派过外交官。

3 counselor   

n.顾问，法律顾问

参考例句：

• The counselor gave us some disinterested advice.顾问给了我们一些无私的忠告。
• Chinese commercial counselor's office in foreign countries.中国驻国外商务参赞处。

4 deteriorated   

恶化，变坏( deteriorate的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• Her health deteriorated rapidly, and she died shortly afterwards. 她的健康状况急剧恶化，不久便去世了。
• His condition steadily deteriorated. 他的病情恶化，日甚一日。

5 potent   

adj.强有力的，有权势的；有效力的

参考例句：

• The medicine had a potent effect on your disease.这药物对你的病疗效很大。
• We must account of his potent influence.我们必须考虑他的强有力的影响。

6 condemn   

vt.谴责，指责；宣判(罪犯)，判刑

参考例句：

• Some praise him,whereas others condemn him.有些人赞扬他，而有些人谴责他。
• We mustn't condemn him on mere suppositions.我们不可全凭臆测来指责他。

7 condemned   

adj. 被责难的, 被宣告有罪的 动词condemn的过去式和过去分词

参考例句：

• He condemned the hypocrisy of those politicians who do one thing and say another. 他谴责了那些说一套做一套的政客的虚伪。
• The policy has been condemned as a regressive step. 这项政策被认为是一种倒退而受到谴责。

8 civilian   

adj.平民的，民用的，民众的

参考例句：

• There is no reliable information about civilian casualties.关于平民的伤亡还没有确凿的信息。
• He resigned his commission to take up a civilian job.他辞去军职而从事平民工作。

9 ongoing   

adj.进行中的，前进的

参考例句：

• The problem is ongoing.这个问题尚未解决。
• The issues raised in the report relate directly to Age Concern's ongoing work in this area.报告中提出的问题与“关心老人”组织在这方面正在做的工作有直接的关系。

10 incite   

v.引起，激动，煽动

参考例句：

• I wanted to point out he was a very good speaker, and could incite a crowd.我想说明他曾是一个非常出色的演讲家，非常会调动群众的情绪。
• Just a few words will incite him into action.他只需几句话一将，就会干。

11 incitement   

激励； 刺激； 煽动； 激励物

参考例句：

• incitement to racial hatred 种族仇恨的挑起
• Interest is an incitement to study. 兴趣刺激学习。

12 spoke   

n.（车轮的）辐条；轮辐；破坏某人的计划；阻挠某人的行动 v.讲，谈（speak的过去式）；说；演说；从某种观点来说

参考例句：

• They sourced the spoke nuts from our company.他们的轮辐螺帽是从我们公司获得的。
• The spokes of a wheel are the bars that connect the outer ring to the centre.辐条是轮子上连接外圈与中心的条棒。

13 sanctuary   

n.圣所，圣堂，寺庙；禁猎区，保护区

参考例句：

• There was a sanctuary of political refugees behind the hospital.医院后面有一个政治难民的避难所。
• Most countries refuse to give sanctuary to people who hijack aeroplanes.大多数国家拒绝对劫机者提供庇护。

14 condoned   

v.容忍，宽恕，原谅( condone的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• Terrorism can never be condoned. 决不能容忍恐怖主义。
• They condoned his sins because he repented. 由于他的悔悟，他们宽恕了他的罪。 来自辞典例句

15 whatsoever   

adv.（用于否定句中以加强语气）任何；pron.无论什么

参考例句：

• There's no reason whatsoever to turn down this suggestion.没有任何理由拒绝这个建议。
• All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you,do ye even so to them.你想别人对你怎样，你就怎样对人。

16 negotiations   

协商( negotiation的名词复数 )； 谈判； 完成（难事）； 通过

参考例句：

• negotiations for a durable peace 为持久和平而进行的谈判
• Negotiations have failed to establish any middle ground. 谈判未能达成任何妥协。

17 essentially   

adv.本质上，实质上，基本上

参考例句：

• Really great men are essentially modest.真正的伟人大都很谦虚。
• She is an essentially selfish person.她本质上是个自私自利的人。

18 lauding   

v.称赞，赞美( laud的现在分词 )

参考例句：

• Let sing out our own song lauding life, lauding world. 让我们以我们自己的歌来咏赞生命，咏赞世界吧！ 来自互联网
• Vice President-elect Joe Biden also spoke, lauding the value of work and the dignity it brings. 副总统当选人乔·拜登经常说，要赞颂工作的价值及其带来的高贵。 来自互联网

19 perpetuated   

vt.使永存（perpetuate的过去式与过去分词形式）

参考例句：

• This system perpetuated itself for several centuries. 这一制度维持了几个世纪。
• I never before saw smile caught like that, and perpetuated. 我从来没有看见过谁的笑容陷入这样的窘况，而且持续不变。 来自辞典例句

20 justification   

n.正当的理由；辩解的理由

参考例句：

• There's no justification for dividing the company into smaller units. 没有理由把公司划分成小单位。
• In the young there is a justification for this feeling. 在年轻人中有这种感觉是有理由的。

21 plausible   

adj.似真实的，似乎有理的，似乎可信的

参考例句：

• His story sounded plausible.他说的那番话似乎是真实的。
• Her story sounded perfectly plausible.她的说辞听起来言之有理。

22 undoubtedly   

adv.确实地，无疑地

参考例句：

• It is undoubtedly she who has said that.这话明明是她说的。
• He is undoubtedly the pride of China.毫无疑问他是中国的骄傲。

23 derived   

vi.起源；由来；衍生；导出v.得到( derive的过去式和过去分词 )；（从…中）得到获得；源于；（从…中）提取

参考例句：

• Many English words are derived from Latin and Greek. 英语很多词源出于拉丁文和希腊文。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• He derived his enthusiasm for literature from his father. 他对文学的爱好是受他父亲的影响。 来自《简明英汉词典》

24 intervention   

n.介入，干涉，干预

参考例句：

• The government's intervention in this dispute will not help.政府对这场争论的干预不会起作用。
• Many people felt he would be hostile to the idea of foreign intervention.许多人觉得他会反对外来干预。

25 frustration   

n.挫折，失败，失效，落空

参考例句：

• He had to fight back tears of frustration.他不得不强忍住失意的泪水。
• He beat his hands on the steering wheel in frustration.他沮丧地用手打了几下方向盘。

26 provocative   

adj.挑衅的，煽动的，刺激的，挑逗的

参考例句：

• She wore a very provocative dress.她穿了一件非常性感的裙子。
• His provocative words only fueled the argument further.他的挑衅性讲话只能使争论进一步激化。

27 hybrid   

n.(动，植）杂种，混合物

参考例句：

• That is a hybrid perpetual rose.那是一株杂交的四季开花的蔷薇。
• The hybrid was tall,handsome,and intelligent.那混血儿高大、英俊、又聪明。

28 lone   

adj.孤寂的，单独的；唯一的

参考例句：

• A lone sea gull flew across the sky.一只孤独的海鸥在空中飞过。
• She could see a lone figure on the deserted beach.她在空旷的海滩上能看到一个孤独的身影。

29 militant   

adj.激进的，好斗的；n.激进分子，斗士

参考例句：

• Some militant leaders want to merge with white radicals.一些好斗的领导人要和白人中的激进派联合。
• He is a militant in the movement.他在那次运动中是个激进人物。

30 mainstream   

n.（思想或行为的）主流；adj.主流的

参考例句：

• Their views lie outside the mainstream of current medical opinion.他们的观点不属于当今医学界观点的主流。
• Polls are still largely reflects the mainstream sentiment.民调还在很大程度上反映了社会主流情绪。