PBS高端访谈:关于奥巴马推动移民改革影响的热议

 　　GWEN IFILL: Hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrants have been deported² since President Obama took office, as efforts at comprehensive immigration reform have fallen by the wayside in Congress. Today, the White House announced the president has come up with a work-around, an executive action that would alter immigration policy without congressional action.

　　For more on the reach of presidential power when it comes to immigration policy, we turn to Frank Sharry, founder³ of America's Voice, an immigration reform group, and Josh Blackman, a constitutional law professor at South Texas School of Law.

　　Frank Sharry, Senator John McCain and others have said this is an unconstitutional move that the president is taking. What's your response to that?

　　FRANK SHARRY, America's Voice: Not at all.

　　It's well-established through historical precedent⁴, and Supreme⁵ Court case law, and legislation that, look, every law enforcement agency has the right to decide, how are they going to use limited resources? Are they going to after everyone? Well, they don't have the resources, so they have to set priorities, target resources.

　　The discretion⁶ is absolute. So it makes sense that President Obama's contemplating⁷ saying, these people here are low priority, deep roots, been in the country, have citizen children. Let's protect them. And then we will use the resources to go after the bad actors, the drug dealers⁸, the national security threats, the serious criminals.

　　So, you know, look, and over the past 60 years, every president since Eisenhower, including Reagan and George W. Bush, has used executive action in the immigration arena⁹. George H.W. Bush took a step in 1990 to legalize roughly half the undocumented population with work permits. There was no controversy¹⁰ about executive action then, and there shouldn't be now.

　　GWEN IFILL: Josh Blackman, what is the constitutional argument here?

　　JOSH BLACKMAN, South Texas College of Law: So the president has a duty to take care of the law and to faithfully execute it.

　　So, while he does have discretion, I don't agree that it's absolute. I think the important point to make is, this goes far beyond what has been done before. It's unprecedented¹¹. Frank mentioned that George H.W. Bush granted deferrals for 1.5 million. I think the key fact to remember is, these are people who are related to those being naturalized by the immigration laws.

　　So, it's simply not the case. Here, President Obama imposed DACA for the dreamers. And now he's going to add five million, six million more. None of these people under statutory law have any pathway to citizenship¹². This is really different than what was done before.

　　GWEN IFILL: Do you agree with the critics who say this is granting amnesty to these people who are not being deported?

　　JOSH BLACKMAN: Well, no, it's not granting amnesty. You're not giving them citizenship.

　　But what you are doing is giving them a legal status and working papers. What this does is make them effectively untouchable by future presidents. So, though in effect there's no legal status, it makes it very difficult for any future presidents to take them out of that status.

　　So the president is giving the next person in office this situation to deal with.

　　GWEN IFILL: Now, of course, Frank Sharry, we haven't seen what the president is going to propose specifically, but we know what's been reported.

　　And one of the phrases that's been used is that he's going to grant temporary protective status to these people, to four million of the five million. What does that mean?

　　FRANK SHARRY: Well, it's actually — it's more likely he's going to use deferred¹³ action. It's something he used for about a half-a-million young people called dreamers. He extended relief to them in 2012, and it's basically the right to work and a stay of deportation¹⁴ until Congress acts.

　　Look, executive action is no substitute for legislation. We need a Congress that will pass comprehensive immigration reform. The Democrats¹⁵ in the Senate led an effort in 2013, passed a bipartisan immigration reform bill, but John Boehner and the House Republicans blocked it. They have blocked is for over 500 days.

　　And so, quite frankly¹⁶, the real question is, do you want someone to fix the system under legal authority or maintain the status quo?

　　GWEN IFILL: But, you know, some advocates say that this didn't go far enough, that the parents of the dreamers didn't — the children who were allowed to stay who were born here are — still aren't covered by this, and that immigrant workers aren't covered by this.

　　FRANK SHARRY: Look, we need to cover all 11 million people.

　　Look, we're talking about a population the size of Ohio that's living in the country outside the statutory frameworks and protections of this country. It's unhealthy for our democracy. It is not good for the families and Congress has to act eventually.

　　In the meantime, the president can't rewrite the law, but he can set priorities and say let's go after the bad guys. Let's protect the good guys. Do it within my lawful¹⁷ authority. You know, honestly, we won't solve the problem until Congress steps up.

　　GWEN IFILL: Josh Blackman, is this the camel's nose under the tent?

　　JOSH BLACKMAN: So, I think the way we have to look at this is, what changed?

　　Until very recently, the president said over and over and over again he doesn't have the authority to do this. Now he says his position is legally unassailable. I would like to see the memorandums from the Department of Justice explaining, what is the legal basis for this? What does this mean? What are the implications of this?

　　If he can do this, what else can he do? And we need to have this debate before the action happens, not afterwards.

　　GWEN IFILL: Is part of your concern that the people who will now be given this temporary protection will also be on a path to citizenship?

　　JOSH BLACKMAN: Well, I think the bigger issue is what this means for future presidents.

　　So, if I can indulge for a second, imagine a President Ted¹ Cruz decides not to enforce environmental laws or imagine if a President Rand Paul decides not to enforce a corporate¹⁸ income tax. The president's ability to suspend the laws and not enforce them raises serious implications.

　　I want to see what the legal implications are. Where are the limits of the ability of the president to not enforce the laws? I want to see, what are the memoranda¹⁹ making that point?

　　GWEN IFILL: Frank Sharry?

　　FRANK SHARRY: Well, look, I understand that a lot of Republicans are against the way the president is doing it, but let's discuss the substance of it.

　　He's going to take people who are deeply rooted in America, who have been living here for more than a decade in many cases, who have U.S. citizen children, and say, are we going to rip those families apart and spend taxpayer²⁰ dollars doing that?

　　GWEN IFILL: But Josh Blackman makes the point, what if it's something you don't agree with that the president decides to do?

　　FRANK SHARRY: Look, what I'm familiar with is, in the context of immigration law, it's rooted in Supreme Court decisions, it's rooted in legislation, it's rooted in regulation.

　　There is nothing extraordinary about this. It's quite similar to what George Herbert Walker Bush did in 1990. There was no controversy there. Ronald Reagan protected hundreds of thousands of Nicaraguans. No controversy there. This is, I think, a bit of a smokescreen designed to obfuscate²¹ the fact that people don't want immigrants to be integrated into America.

　　GWEN IFILL: Josh Blackman, what is the alternative if this isn't the right approach?

　　JOSH BLACKMAN: Well, simply because the president doesn't get what he wants doesn't mean he can do it anyway. We had an election. His party didn't do very well. He had legislation. It didn't go anywhere. He lost.

　　And sometimes, when you're a politician, you have to take your losses and go home, despite the humanitarian²² concerns which I think are significant and Frank make valid²³ points. You don't get to do what you want when don't have the votes in Congress. And each time the president has been in office, every successive elections, he has lost seats.

　　And now in his lame-duck session, when the Congress is about to begin its last term, he's doing it now, when there are more elections to hold accountable. So I really think the fact that the president cited this gridlock in Washington as a justification²⁴ for his executive actions is really a misnomer²⁵. He doesn't have the power and he is choosing to do it anyway.

　　GWEN IFILL: So there is no alternative? Is that what you're saying?

　　JOSH BLACKMAN: Right.

　　Until the Congress is willing to approach and make a compromise, there's nothing that can be done. And, frankly, that's how our system works. Right? Our Constitution is not designed to be efficient. Gridlock is part of our constitutional order. For better or worse, we have checks and balances for a reason.

　　GWEN IFILL: Josh Blackman, professor at the South Texas College of Law, and Frank Sharry with America's Voice, thank you both very much.

　　FRANK SHARRY: Thank you.

　　JOSH BLACKMAN: Thank you so much.

1 ted   

vt.翻晒，撒，撒开

参考例句：

• The invaders gut ted the village.侵略者把村中财物洗劫一空。
• She often teds the corn when it's sunny.天好的时候她就翻晒玉米。

2 deported   

v.将…驱逐出境( deport的过去式和过去分词 )；举止

参考例句：

• They stripped me of my citizenship and deported me. 他们剥夺我的公民资格，将我驱逐出境。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The convicts were deported to a deserted island. 罪犯们被流放到一个荒岛。 来自《简明英汉词典》

3 Founder   

n.创始者，缔造者

参考例句：

• He was extolled as the founder of their Florentine school.他被称颂为佛罗伦萨画派的鼻祖。
• According to the old tradition,Romulus was the founder of Rome.按照古老的传说，罗穆卢斯是古罗马的建国者。

4 precedent   

n.先例，前例；惯例；adj.在前的，在先的

参考例句：

• Is there a precedent for what you want me to do?你要我做的事有前例可援吗？
• This is a wonderful achievement without precedent in Chinese history.这是中国历史上亘古未有的奇绩。

5 supreme   

adj.极度的，最重要的；至高的，最高的

参考例句：

• It was the supreme moment in his life.那是他一生中最重要的时刻。
• He handed up the indictment to the supreme court.他把起诉书送交最高法院。

6 discretion   

n.谨慎；随意处理

参考例句：

• You must show discretion in choosing your friend.你择友时必须慎重。
• Please use your best discretion to handle the matter.请慎重处理此事。

7 contemplating   

深思，细想，仔细考虑( contemplate的现在分词 )； 注视，凝视； 考虑接受（发生某事的可能性）； 深思熟虑，沉思，苦思冥想

参考例句：

• You're too young to be contemplating retirement. 你考虑退休还太年轻。
• She stood contemplating the painting. 她站在那儿凝视那幅图画。

8 dealers   

n.商人( dealer的名词复数 )；贩毒者；毒品贩子；发牌者

参考例句：

• There was fast bidding between private collectors and dealers. 私人收藏家和交易商急速竞相喊价。
• The police were corrupt and were operating in collusion with the drug dealers. 警察腐败，与那伙毒品贩子内外勾结。

9 arena   

n.竞技场，运动场所；竞争场所，舞台

参考例句：

• She entered the political arena at the age of 25. 她25岁进入政界。
• He had not an adequate arena for the exercise of his talents.他没有充分发挥其才能的场所。

10 controversy   

n.争论，辩论，争吵

参考例句：

• That is a fact beyond controversy.那是一个无可争论的事实。
• We ran the risk of becoming the butt of every controversy.我们要冒使自己在所有的纷争中都成为众矢之的的风险。

11 unprecedented   

adj.无前例的，新奇的

参考例句：

• The air crash caused an unprecedented number of deaths.这次空难的死亡人数是空前的。
• A flood of this sort is really unprecedented.这样大的洪水真是十年九不遇。

12 citizenship   

n.市民权，公民权，国民的义务(身份)

参考例句：

• He was born in Sweden,but he doesn't have Swedish citizenship.他在瑞典出生，但没有瑞典公民身分。
• Ten years later,she chose to take Australian citizenship.十年后，她选择了澳大利亚国籍。

13 deferred   

adj.延期的，缓召的v.拖延，延缓，推迟( defer的过去式和过去分词 )；服从某人的意愿，遵从

参考例句：

• The department deferred the decision for six months. 这个部门推迟了六个月才作决定。
• a tax-deferred savings plan 延税储蓄计划

14 deportation   

n.驱逐，放逐

参考例句：

• The government issued a deportation order against the four men.政府发出了对那4名男子的驱逐令。
• Years ago convicted criminals in England could face deportation to Australia.很多年以前，英国已定罪的犯人可能被驱逐到澳大利亚。

15 democrats   

n.民主主义者，民主人士( democrat的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The Democrats held a pep rally on Capitol Hill yesterday. 民主党昨天在国会山召开了竞选誓师大会。
• The democrats organize a filibuster in the senate. 民主党党员组织了阻挠议事。 来自《简明英汉词典》

16 frankly   

adv.坦白地，直率地；坦率地说

参考例句：

• To speak frankly, I don't like the idea at all.老实说，我一点也不赞成这个主意。
• Frankly speaking, I'm not opposed to reform.坦率地说，我不反对改革。

17 lawful   

adj.法律许可的，守法的，合法的

参考例句：

• It is not lawful to park in front of a hydrant.在消火栓前停车是不合法的。
• We don't recognised him to be the lawful heir.我们不承认他为合法继承人。

18 corporate   

adj.共同的，全体的；公司的，企业的

参考例句：

• This is our corporate responsibility.这是我们共同的责任。
• His corporate's life will be as short as a rabbit's tail.他的公司的寿命是兔子尾巴长不了。

19 memoranda   

n. 备忘录, 便条 名词memorandum的复数形式

参考例句：

• There were memoranda, minutes of meetings, officialflies, notes of verbal di scussions. 有备忘录，会议记录，官方档案，口头讨论的手记。
• Now it was difficult to get him to address memoranda. 而现在，要他批阅备忘录都很困难。

20 taxpayer   

n.纳税人

参考例句：

• The new scheme will run off with a lot of the taxpayer's money.这项新计划将用去纳税人许多钱。
• The taxpayer are unfavourably disposed towards the recent tax increase.纳税者对最近的增加税收十分反感。

21 obfuscate   

v.使困惑，使迷乱

参考例句：

• He delighted in his ability to obfuscate.他对自己有本事把别人搞得晕头转向感到得意。
• This message might appear if you obfuscate the solution code.如果您对解决方案代码进行模糊处理，可能显示此消息。

22 humanitarian   

n.人道主义者，博爱者，基督凡人论者

参考例句：

• She has many humanitarian interests and contributes a lot to them.她拥有很多慈善事业，并作了很大的贡献。
• The British government has now suspended humanitarian aid to the area.英国政府现已暂停对这一地区的人道主义援助。

23 valid   

adj.有确实根据的；有效的；正当的，合法的

参考例句：

• His claim to own the house is valid.他主张对此屋的所有权有效。
• Do you have valid reasons for your absence?你的缺席有正当理由吗？

24 justification   

n.正当的理由；辩解的理由

参考例句：

• There's no justification for dividing the company into smaller units. 没有理由把公司划分成小单位。
• In the young there is a justification for this feeling. 在年轻人中有这种感觉是有理由的。

25 misnomer   

n.误称

参考例句：

• Herbal"tea"is something of a misnomer because these drinks contain no tea at all.花草“茶”是一个误称，因为这类饮料里面根本不含茶。
• Actually," Underground "is a misnomer,because more than half the shops are above ground.实际上，“ 地下 ” 这个名称用之不当，因为半数以上的店铺是在地面上的。