PBS高端访谈:约旦发现和伊斯兰国妥协是不可能的

 　　GWEN IFILL: We take a closer look at the killing¹ of the Jordanian pilot and reaction with Rod Nordland of The New York Times, who is on the ground in Amman, and former Jordanian Foreign Minister Marwan Muasher. He's now vice² president for studies at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

　　Welcome to you both.

　　Rod Nordland, we are now learning that, in fact, we're hearing that this Jordanian pilot was killed a month ago, even though negotiations³ were under way just until, we're told, this week. Is there some sense now that this was nothing that was ever going to be fixed⁴ or that this was futile⁵?

　　ROD NORDLAND, The New York Times: Well, I think it's clear that Jordan's position they had to show proof of life was informed by their belief that he was already dead, and they weren't going to release this terrorist, Sajida Rishawi, from prison if they thought that he really was dead. And that now appears to have been the case.

　　GWEN IFILL: Were the — was his family still hopeful that he was alive?

　　ROD NORDLAND: They were really hopeful. They were hopeful up until a few seconds before word came that this video was out showing his death in this really horrible manner, burned to death in a cage.

　　As it happens, my colleague Ranya Kadri was sitting with the mother and the wife of the pilot when the word came, and it was kind of an unfortunate insight into just how devastating⁶ this kind of news is to families and the loved ones of somebody this happens to.

　　They were just completely hysterical⁷, pulling their hair out, screaming. And it just really brought it home, because I was actually on the phone with Ranya when this all happened. And then, when we saw the video, it was really — it was just about as despicable a thing as you can imagine.

　　GWEN IFILL: Marwan Muasher, does this tit-for-tat diplomacy⁸, now we're hearing the woman prison will also be executed, is that — has that replaced diplomacy?

　　MARWAN MUASHER, Former Foreign Minister, Jordan: Well, first of all, these are unconfirmed reports, but there is no question in my mind that there is a state of anger and shock today among all Jordanians and that there will probably be a public demand to execute this woman and three others also that are in Jordanian prisons.

　　But let me point out that these are people who have already been condemned⁹ and sentenced to death, so they were awaiting execution for many, many years. And whether the government is going to retaliate¹⁰ in this way remains¹¹ to be seen, but I think it will fall under public pressure to do so.

　　GWEN IFILL: Does this put Jordan between kind of a rock and a hard place? It's part of the coalition¹². At the same time, it's taking in so many refugees, and at the same time so many recruits for ISIL are coming from Jordan.

　　MARWAN MUASHER: Well, Jordan has been in a tough position.

　　The king has made it clear that he regards this war not just as a military war against ISIS, but also a cultural war, a war of values, if you want, to determine who speaks on behalf of Islam. And I think that, whereas some people in Jordan didn't take that message, and really, you know, it is estimated that maybe between 2,000 to 5,000 people are ideologically¹⁴ attached to ISIS, I think this message will resonate more, particularly after the horrible, horrible way in which the pilot was killed.

　　GWEN IFILL: It is horrible.

　　And, Rod Nordland, I wonder whether this nervousness, this unhappiness that Marwan Muasher refers to is being — is resonating now on the streets in Amman, where you are tonight.

　　ROD NORDLAND: You know, a week ago, people were saying, and we were reporting actually, that a lot of Jordanians thought this shouldn't be their war, they shouldn't be a part of it.

　　And there's been a huge change in attitude, even before this awful video of his murder came out. Even before that, Jordanians were really rallying around the flag and turning against ISIS and its tactics. And I think if they thought that this video was going to turn Jordanians away from joining in the coalition, I think they badly misjudged the mood. And I think we will see even more support for Jordan's role.

　　GWEN IFILL: And do you agree with Marwan Muasher then that the mood has been misjudged because of the cultural war that's under way here, rather — and the ideological¹³ one, rather than anything having to do with Islam?

　　ROD NORDLAND: Yes, I think that's probably true.

　　At the same time, though, there has been, you know, a kind of underground here of supporters for ISIS, especially young men, some of them fairly vocal¹⁵. I think you will be hard-pressed tomorrow to find anybody speaking out on behalf of ISIS, or the Islamic State, anymore here, and there will be a real kind of reckoning to come.

　　GWEN IFILL: Marwan Muasher, why the increase in barbarity, to use President Obama's words? We weren't exactly inured¹⁶ to beheadings, but this seems to be a step beyond, several steps beyond.

　　MARWAN MUASHER: I actually see it as a sign of weakness.

　　When you kill people in such a barbaric manner, it sort of proves that you're not able to get results by other means. Whatever the case, this is clearly a group that doesn't belong to humanity, with which no compromise is possible.

　　GWEN IFILL: How do you stop them from doing this?

　　MARWAN MUASHER: You stop them first militarily, but also culturally.

　　I think we need a cultural war of values to address the very grievances¹⁷ that, you know, a lot of people have and are frustrated¹⁸ enough to move them to join such barbaric groups.

　　And it is a war that, you know, the region has to take for itself. They need to be fought militarily, but the underlying¹⁹ causes of frustration²⁰ and marginalization have also to be addressed. And I hope that is going to be the case. The king, as I said, made it very clear that this is a cultural war, that the region needs to make it clear that Islam, you know, has no place in it for such groups.

　　GWEN IFILL: And, Rod Nordland, would you say that tonight Jordan is a nation in mourning?

　　ROD NORDLAND: Yes, I think that's safe to say.

　　Schools are going to be closed tomorrow, probably businesses and government as well. And I think we will see a huge reaction here to what's happened tonight.

　　GWEN IFILL: Rod Nordland of The New York Times in Amman for us tonight, and Marwan Muasher, the former foreign minister for Jordan, thank you very much.

　　MARWAN MUASHER: Thank you.

1 killing   

n.巨额利润；突然赚大钱，发大财

参考例句：

• Investors are set to make a killing from the sell-off.投资者准备清仓以便大赚一笔。
• Last week my brother made a killing on Wall Street.上个周我兄弟在华尔街赚了一大笔。

2 vice   

n.坏事；恶习；[pl.]台钳，老虎钳；adj.副的

参考例句：

• He guarded himself against vice.他避免染上坏习惯。
• They are sunk in the depth of vice.他们堕入了罪恶的深渊。

3 negotiations   

协商( negotiation的名词复数 )； 谈判； 完成（难事）； 通过

参考例句：

• negotiations for a durable peace 为持久和平而进行的谈判
• Negotiations have failed to establish any middle ground. 谈判未能达成任何妥协。

4 fixed   

adj.固定的，不变的，准备好的；(计算机)固定的

参考例句：

• Have you two fixed on a date for the wedding yet?你们俩选定婚期了吗？
• Once the aim is fixed,we should not change it arbitrarily.目标一旦确定，我们就不应该随意改变。

5 futile   

adj.无效的，无用的，无希望的

参考例句：

• They were killed,to the last man,in a futile attack.因为进攻失败，他们全部被杀，无一幸免。
• Their efforts to revive him were futile.他们对他抢救无效。

6 devastating   

adj.毁灭性的，令人震惊的，强有力的

参考例句：

• It is the most devastating storm in 20 years.这是20年来破坏性最大的风暴。
• Affairs do have a devastating effect on marriages.婚外情确实会对婚姻造成毁灭性的影响。

7 hysterical   

adj.情绪异常激动的，歇斯底里般的

参考例句：

• He is hysterical at the sight of the photo.他一看到那张照片就异常激动。
• His hysterical laughter made everybody stunned.他那歇斯底里的笑声使所有的人不知所措。

8 diplomacy   

n.外交；外交手腕，交际手腕

参考例句：

• The talks have now gone into a stage of quiet diplomacy.会谈现在已经进入了“温和外交”阶段。
• This was done through the skill in diplomacy. 这是通过外交手腕才做到的。

9 condemned   

adj. 被责难的, 被宣告有罪的 动词condemn的过去式和过去分词

参考例句：

• He condemned the hypocrisy of those politicians who do one thing and say another. 他谴责了那些说一套做一套的政客的虚伪。
• The policy has been condemned as a regressive step. 这项政策被认为是一种倒退而受到谴责。

10 retaliate   

v.报复，反击

参考例句：

• He sought every opportunity to retaliate against his enemy.他找机会向他的敌人反击。
• It is strictly forbidden to retaliate against the quality inspectors.严禁对质量检验人员进行打击报复。

11 remains   

n.剩余物，残留物；遗体，遗迹

参考例句：

• He ate the remains of food hungrily.他狼吞虎咽地吃剩余的食物。
• The remains of the meal were fed to the dog.残羹剩饭喂狗了。

12 coalition   

n.结合体，同盟，结合，联合

参考例句：

• The several parties formed a coalition.这几个政党组成了政治联盟。
• Coalition forces take great care to avoid civilian casualties.联盟军队竭尽全力避免造成平民伤亡。

13 ideological   

a.意识形态的

参考例句：

• He always tries to link his study with his ideological problems. 他总是把学习和自己的思想问题联系起来。
• He helped me enormously with advice on how to do ideological work. 他告诉我怎样做思想工作，对我有很大帮助。

14 ideologically   

adv. 意识形态上地，思想上地

参考例句：

• Ideologically, they have many differences. 在思想意识上，他们之间有许多不同之处。
• He has slipped back ideologically. 他思想退步了。

15 vocal   

adj.直言不讳的；嗓音的；n.[pl.]声乐节目

参考例句：

• The tongue is a vocal organ.舌头是一个发音器官。
• Public opinion at last became vocal.终于舆论哗然。

16 inured   

adj.坚强的，习惯的

参考例句：

• The prisoners quickly became inured to the harsh conditions.囚犯们很快就适应了苛刻的条件。
• He has inured himself to accept misfortune.他锻练了自己，使自己能承受不幸。

17 grievances   

n.委屈( grievance的名词复数 )；苦衷；不满；牢骚

参考例句：

• The trade union leader spoke about the grievances of the workers. 工会领袖述说工人们的苦情。 来自《现代英汉综合大词典》
• He gave air to his grievances. 他申诉了他的冤情。 来自《简明英汉词典》

18 frustrated   

adj.挫败的，失意的，泄气的v.使不成功( frustrate的过去式和过去分词 )；挫败；使受挫折；令人沮丧

参考例句：

• It's very easy to get frustrated in this job. 这个工作很容易令人懊恼。
• The bad weather frustrated all our hopes of going out. 恶劣的天气破坏了我们出行的愿望。 来自《简明英汉词典》

19 underlying   

adj.在下面的，含蓄的，潜在的

参考例句：

• The underlying theme of the novel is very serious.小说隐含的主题是十分严肃的。
• This word has its underlying meaning.这个单词有它潜在的含义。

20 frustration   

n.挫折，失败，失效，落空

参考例句：

• He had to fight back tears of frustration.他不得不强忍住失意的泪水。
• He beat his hands on the steering wheel in frustration.他沮丧地用手打了几下方向盘。