PBS高端访谈:美国与欧洲的联手将会对乌克兰冲突起重大作用

 　　GWEN IFILL: And Margaret Warner joins me now.

　　Margaret Warner, the president — or, I should say, Angela Merkel made clear that she wants diplomacy¹ first, and if that doesn't work, then maybe we will talk about what happens next. Did the president give any sign of where he's leaning?

　　MARGARET WARNER: I think the president — I think what we heard today — first of all, last week, administration officials were saying that this drumroll that he was about the furnish weapons was a little overstated, that he hadn't made up his mind.

　　I think, today, even though we heard him make a case for it, we also heard him lay out some of the doubts and dangers, things like the weapons would fall in the wrong hands, it would make the Ukrainian military more aggressive than they can actually sustain. And so he said my measure will be, is it more likely to be effective than not?

　　I think the other thing we saw on display today, he is determined² to stay united with the Europeans because he thinks that's the only way, whether it's on sanctions or anything else, to keep pressure on Putin, and that is the only option that they have got.

　　GWEN IFILL: Everything is tied to everything else.

　　MARGARET WARNER: That's right.

　　GWEN IFILL: Was this a matter of courtesy, as much as anything else? Here, she's right here in my White House and I'm not going to disagree with her?

　　MARGARET WARNER: No, I think it's actually strategic and tactical.

　　GWEN IFILL: Yes.

　　MARGARET WARNER: The president understands that the minute Vladimir Putin splits the U.S. from the Europeans, the game is over, as far as he is concerned, and she is taking a longer view than he is.

　　Her argument is, we have to have strategic patience, we have to keep upping the ante on sanctions and see if at some point that causes him to change his calculus³.

　　GWEN IFILL: Well, she was more recently in a room with him than Barack Obama was, she and Francois Hollande trying to figure out the middle ground.

　　MARGARET WARNER: Yes.

　　GWEN IFILL: Was there any sign — did she indicate or anybody indicate that there was some give on this with Putin?

　　MARGARET WARNER: That's been a very well-kept secret as to what exactly Merkel and Hollande got out of it.

　　But I'm told by U.S. officials that German and French officials said the talks were really tough. Putin showed no give whatsoever⁴. They don't really have any great expectations for this meeting on Wednesday necessarily, but they want to play it out.

　　You know, they couldn't really refuse to show up because Putin had sent this new proposal, even though it's so extreme, in the view of the U.S. and the Europeans, that it's a nonstarter. So they showed up. But it wasn't encouraging.

　　I asked one U.S. official, well, how do you all read Putin lately? And he said, we are way beyond the point of any competence⁵ or confidence on that one.

　　GWEN IFILL: So, what then is the U.S. role in this? You're right. They want to keep him at the table for the potential of Iran negotiations⁶ and all of these other related issues, but what does the U.S. see as its role? Does it step back and let Europe take the lead?

　　MARGARET WARNER: No.

　　I think that the U.S. is staying real close to the Europeans. And President Obama is always there to argue that we have to keep the pressure on. And they think actually Merkel agrees with that. It's just a question of how long this timeline is.

　　But the U.S. fear or the administration's fear is that the longer — the outcome of the Moscow meeting was Washington's worst nightmare, which is that on the eve of the new sanctions that were going to be opposed by the E.U. today, Putin would come in with some plan and say let's talk and then he would say, let's keep talking.

　　And sure enough, the E.U. held back on the new sanctions, and that, meanwhile, the rebels are just gaining more and more and more ground and creating new facts on the ground, and that then Putin will be able to argue, well, the new cease-fire line has to be even bigger and bigger and be beyond the reach of Kiev.

　　So I think that the president wants to stay very engaged in this, but they weren't going to tell Merkel and Hollande, when the U.S. pointedly⁷ wasn't invited to the meeting, oh, well, you can't go. They had to play it out.

　　GWEN IFILL: Yes. What's become of the relationship between president and Angela Merkel? There was a little tension, a little strain after the eavesdropping⁸ incident. Was there any evidence of that still?

　　MARGARET WARNER: Well, I don't think so.

　　I think that they both said quite frankly⁹ at the end, when the NSA issue was raised, President — both Angela Merkel and President Obama said it had caused some major rifts¹⁰ — and that wasn't their word — between allies, and many allies didn't quite understand.

　　Then the president made a very spirited defense¹¹, though, of when we're out in cyberspace¹² looking for these terrorists, they want to attack Berlin or New York, and we hope the German public understands that.

　　I think you have got two very businesslike people here. And they know they want to do business with one another. And I don't think it's even a cold relationship. I think it's a really quite frank and open one. And the Germans remain very upset about the NSA surveillance.

　　GWEN IFILL: But they're transactional individuals and have to come to a meeting of the minds.

　　MARGARET WARNER: Well, exactly, and they actually trust one another, I think.

　　GWEN IFILL: Yes, interesting.

　　MARGARET WARNER: Yes.

　　GWEN IFILL: OK, Margaret Warner, thank you.

　　MARGARET WARNER: Always my pleasure.

1 diplomacy   

n.外交；外交手腕，交际手腕

参考例句：

• The talks have now gone into a stage of quiet diplomacy.会谈现在已经进入了“温和外交”阶段。
• This was done through the skill in diplomacy. 这是通过外交手腕才做到的。

2 determined   

adj.坚定的；有决心的

参考例句：

• I have determined on going to Tibet after graduation.我已决定毕业后去西藏。
• He determined to view the rooms behind the office.他决定查看一下办公室后面的房间。

3 calculus   

n.微积分；结石

参考例句：

• This is a problem where calculus won't help at all.对于这一题，微积分一点也用不上。
• After studying differential calculus you will be able to solve these mathematical problems.学了微积分之后，你们就能够解这些数学题了。

4 whatsoever   

adv.（用于否定句中以加强语气）任何；pron.无论什么

参考例句：

• There's no reason whatsoever to turn down this suggestion.没有任何理由拒绝这个建议。
• All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you,do ye even so to them.你想别人对你怎样，你就怎样对人。

5 competence   

n.能力，胜任，称职

参考例句：

• This mess is a poor reflection on his competence.这种混乱情况说明他难当此任。
• These are matters within the competence of the court.这些是法院权限以内的事。

6 negotiations   

协商( negotiation的名词复数 )； 谈判； 完成（难事）； 通过

参考例句：

• negotiations for a durable peace 为持久和平而进行的谈判
• Negotiations have failed to establish any middle ground. 谈判未能达成任何妥协。

7 pointedly   

adv.尖地，明显地

参考例句：

• She yawned and looked pointedly at her watch. 她打了个哈欠，又刻意地看了看手表。
• The demand for an apology was pointedly refused. 让对方道歉的要求遭到了断然拒绝。 来自《简明英汉词典》

8 eavesdropping   

n. 偷听

参考例句：

• We caught him eavesdropping outside the window. 我们撞见他正在窗外偷听。
• Suddenly the kids,who had been eavesdropping,flew into the room. 突然间，一直在偷听的孩子们飞进屋来。

9 frankly   

adv.坦白地，直率地；坦率地说

参考例句：

• To speak frankly, I don't like the idea at all.老实说，我一点也不赞成这个主意。
• Frankly speaking, I'm not opposed to reform.坦率地说，我不反对改革。

10 rifts   

n.裂缝( rift的名词复数 )；裂隙；分裂；不和

参考例句：

• After that, through the rifts in the inky clouds sparkled redder and yet more luminous particles. 然后在几条墨蓝色云霞的隙缝里闪出几个更红更亮的小片。 来自汉英文学 - 现代散文
• The Destinies mend rifts in time as man etches fate. 当人类想要再次亵渎命运的时候，命运及时修正了这些裂痕。 来自互联网

11 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

12 cyberspace   

n.虚拟信息空间，网络空间，计算机化世界

参考例句：

• She travels in cyberspace by sending messages to friends around the world.她利用电子空间给世界各地的朋友们发送信件。
• The teens spend more time in cyberspace than in the real world of friends and family.青少年花费在电脑上的时间比他们和真正的朋友及家人在一起的时间要多。