PBS高端访谈:美国做什么才能够阻止ISIS?

 　　GWEN IFILL: For more on this, I'm joined by Feisal Istrabadi. He was Iraq's deputy ambassador to the United Nations 2004 to 2007. And David Ignatius, a foreign policy columnist¹ for The Washington Post.

　　David, the president today in that interview that was published today described the fall of Ramadi as a tactical setback². Is it?

　　DAVID IGNATIUS, The Washington Post: I think it's more than that. I think it's a symbol that the strategy that the U.S. has been pursuing or encouraging Iraq to pursue for the last year — Mosul was overrun in June of last year — simply isn't working in reaching out to Sunnis, helping³ Sunnis push ISIS out of big cities like Mosul and now Ramadi, Fallujah, which is next to Baghdad.

　　Somehow, the administration has to find a way to help or push Abadi to reach out to the rest of his country. Otherwise, it looks to me as if these Sunni areas are gone.

　　GWEN IFILL: Do you think the problem lies with Abadi?

　　DAVID IGNATIUS: I think Abadi wants to do the right thing. He certainly tells U.S. officials often that he's trying to reach out to Sunnis, but, for a year, the U.S. has been trying to encourage Iraq to pass a law that would provide money and training and weapons for a Sunni national guard that could be effective in places like Ramadi, like Mosul, in turning back these Islamic fighters.

　　That legislation still has not been passed. And Abadi needs help and needs to be prodded⁴. If the legislation isn't passed and the weapons and training don't come, there are no Sunni fighters.

　　GWEN IFILL: Feisal Istrabadi, is this a question of underestimating the strength of ISIS, not only by the United States, but also by the Iraqi government itself?

　　FEISAL ISTRABADI, Former Deputy UN Ambassador, Iraq: Well, that may very well be, although the stunning⁵ success that it had a year ago in taking Mosul in four hours should have focused all of our minds rather discretely⁶.

　　I think that Mr. Ignatius is right, that there is not a — well, a year ago, the administration was right to say that it would only support the Iraqi government if political changes were made. It recognized then that political changes needed to be made on the ground in Iraq. Over that time, over the past year, it has not done enough, in my judgment⁷, to insist upon that political accommodation being made and has focused too much on the military aspect of this engagement, and not enough on the political reforms that are needed, specifically things like reconciliation⁸ and some of the things that David Ignatius talked about a few moments ago.

　　GWEN IFILL: But I wonder — and I will start with you and I will ask David this as well — I wonder if this doesn't also speak to a disconnect in U.S. policy toward ISIS or toward defeating ISIS?

　　FEISAL ISTRABADI: It's not clear to me.

　　The spokesman said if there's a change of strategy, tell us what it is. A change of strategy suggests there is a strategy. I don't see a strategy that deals with — that concerns with dealing⁹ wit with ISIL overall. There is some sort of strategy for dealing with it in Iraq. I'm not sure there is one in Syria. And Libya is another problem altogether.

　　There doesn't — ISIL seems to have a strategy. They are metastasizing. But it isn't clear to me that the United States or indeed the Western alliance or the regional powers in fact have a strategy of confronting ISIL as such.

　　GWEN IFILL: David Ignatius, what about that?

　　DAVID IGNATIUS: Well, I think Mr. Istrabadi is right that the U.S. strategy has been that Iraq should come first. It's very hard to understand just what our strategy is in Syria, frankly¹⁰, and on Iraq that this is Iraq's war, that the role of the United States is to help Iraq, to arm, train, support, provide air support, but this has to be Iraq's war.

　　I think President Obama, frankly, is reading the United States public correctly in judging that the country just isn't ready to send a big ground army back into Iraq.

　　GWEN IFILL: Even though there are 3,000 American advisers¹¹ on the ground.

　　DAVID IGNATIUS: There are 3,000 American advisers, but there are limits on the American role. I wish that those advisers were leaning harder into the fight, because I think that would help embolden¹² the Iraqi forces, on whom we are depending.

　　But we have to look at what's happened in the last week. I think the only judgment you can make is that what we're doing now isn't working. Important territory is being lost. And the president, if he wants to stick with his strategy, he has to be tougher about implementing¹³ it with Iraqis, with the American military that is providing the support. A whole series of things have to be stepped up, or we're going to see more reversals.

　　GWEN IFILL: Feisal Istrabadi, to what degree is Iran a complicating¹⁴ factor in all of this?

　　FEISAL ISTRABADI: Well, I mean, Iran is a complicating factor.

　　On the other hand, Iran is also engaged in the fight against ISIL for reasons of its own that include a desire not to see a reasonably friendly government in Baghdad falling. But it also includes its desire not to have ISIL's ideology¹⁵ spread in the region where it lives.

　　So, there is an opportunity for cooperation with Iran. ISIL is a common enemy. And I think we are at a point where the enemy of my enemy is close enough to being my friend at least.

　　GWEN IFILL: Is this kind of instability — and, of course, there's a lot of argument against the idea of the U.S. being friends with the enemy of their enemy — but does this kind of instability make it more difficult for the U.S. to accomplish other goals, like getting this nuclear deal?

　　DAVID IGNATIUS: Well, I think the U.S. has been careful not to go too far in attacking Iran's allies, in particular in attacking Hezbollah forces in Syria, which have been propping¹⁶ up the regime of Bashar al-Assad.

　　But the U.S. has to be careful. If our strategy depends on Sunnis doing the fighting to clear Mosul and Ramadi — and, as near as I can tell, that is the strategy — then you have to be careful that Sunnis don't perceive the U.S. to be operating arm in arm with Iran or with Iranian-backed Shiite militias¹⁷ that Abadi — Prime Minister Abadi is using in Iraq, so that, in effect, we're fronting for Iran.

　　That's a recipe for more Sunnis moving toward ISIS and away from the coalition¹⁸.

　　GWEN IFILL: Feisal Istrabadi, it sounds like between a rock and a hard place once again.

　　FEISAL ISTRABADI: I'm afraid so.

　　And, of course, Mr. Ignatius is right on that last point. It has to be a very delicate balancing act. The fact is, I believe, that there is at least de facto cooperation between United States and Iran, at least in Iraq. And I think, if nothing else, it's a realization¹⁹ that they are a factor, they will be a factor. And on this one, at least, they're on the same side.

　　The militias are a problem, because the militias may well be driving people to the wrong side in places like Anbar. I'm not sure Abadi is so much using the militias as having them foisted²⁰ on him. And that is a — that itself is a complicating factor.

　　GWEN IFILL: Feisal Istrabadi, David Ignatius, thank you both very much.

　　FEISAL ISTRABADI: Thank you.

1 columnist   

n.专栏作家

参考例句：

• The host was interviewing a local columnist.节目主持人正在同一位当地的专栏作家交谈。
• She's a columnist for USA Today.她是《今日美国报》的专栏作家。

2 setback   

n.退步，挫折，挫败

参考例句：

• Since that time there has never been any setback in his career.从那时起他在事业上一直没有遇到周折。
• She views every minor setback as a disaster.她把每个较小的挫折都看成重大灾难。

3 helping   

n.食物的一份&adj.帮助人的，辅助的

参考例句：

• The poor children regularly pony up for a second helping of my hamburger. 那些可怜的孩子们总是要求我把我的汉堡包再给他们一份。
• By doing this, they may at times be helping to restore competition. 这样一来, 他在某些时候,有助于竞争的加强。

4 prodded   

v.刺，戳( prod的过去式和过去分词 )；刺激；促使；（用手指或尖物）戳

参考例句：

• She prodded him in the ribs to wake him up. 她用手指杵他的肋部把他叫醒。
• He prodded at the plate of fish with his fork. 他拿叉子戳弄着那盘鱼。 来自《简明英汉词典》

5 stunning   

adj.极好的；使人晕倒的

参考例句：

• His plays are distinguished only by their stunning mediocrity.他的戏剧与众不同之处就是平凡得出奇。
• The finished effect was absolutely stunning.完工后的效果非常美。

6 discretely   

分离地，离散地

参考例句：

• The mesh is the outcome of discretely decomposing the continuous space. 网格是对连续空间进行离散剖分的结果。
• The sensitive flesh must choose the product which discretely these mark sensitive flesh may use. 敏感型肌肤也要谨慎挑选那些标明敏感肌肤可以使用的产品。

7 judgment   

n.审判；判断力，识别力，看法，意见

参考例句：

• The chairman flatters himself on his judgment of people.主席自认为他审视人比别人高明。
• He's a man of excellent judgment.他眼力过人。

8 reconciliation   

n.和解，和谐，一致

参考例句：

• He was taken up with the reconciliation of husband and wife.他忙于做夫妻间的调解工作。
• Their handshake appeared to be a gesture of reconciliation.他们的握手似乎是和解的表示。

9 dealing   

n.经商方法，待人态度

参考例句：

• This store has an excellent reputation for fair dealing.该商店因买卖公道而享有极高的声誉。
• His fair dealing earned our confidence.他的诚实的行为获得我们的信任。

10 frankly   

adv.坦白地，直率地；坦率地说

参考例句：

• To speak frankly, I don't like the idea at all.老实说，我一点也不赞成这个主意。
• Frankly speaking, I'm not opposed to reform.坦率地说，我不反对改革。

11 advisers   

顾问，劝告者( adviser的名词复数 )； （指导大学新生学科问题等的）指导教授

参考例句：

• a member of the President's favoured circle of advisers 总统宠爱的顾问班子中的一员
• She withdrew to confer with her advisers before announcing a decision. 她先去请教顾问然后再宣布决定。

12 embolden   

v.给…壮胆，鼓励

参考例句：

• Emboldened by the wine,he went over to introduce himself to her.他借酒壮胆，走上前去向她作自我介绍。
• The Prime Minister was steadily emboldened by the discovery that he faced no opposition.发现自己并未遭到反对，首相渐渐有了信心。

13 implementing   

v.实现( implement的现在分词 )；执行；贯彻；使生效

参考例句：

• -- Implementing a comprehensive drug control strategy. ――实行综合治理的禁毒战略。 来自汉英非文学 - 白皮书
• He was in no hurry about implementing his unshakable principle. 他并不急于实行他那不可动摇的原则。 来自辞典例句

14 complicating   

使复杂化( complicate的现在分词 )

参考例句：

• High spiking fever with chills is suggestive of a complicating pylephlebitis. 伴有寒战的高热，暗示合并门静脉炎。
• In America these actions become executive puberty rites, complicating relationships that are already complicated enough. 在美国，这些行动成了行政青春期的惯例，使本来已经够复杂的关系变得更复杂了。

15 ideology   

n.意识形态，(政治或社会的)思想意识

参考例句：

• The ideology has great influence in the world.这种思想体系在世界上有很大的影响。
• The ideal is to strike a medium between ideology and inspiration.我的理想是在意识思想和灵感鼓动之间找到一个折衷。

16 propping   

支撑

参考例句：

• You can usually find Jack propping up the bar at his local. 你常常可以看见杰克频繁出没于他居住的那家酒店。
• The government was accused of propping up declining industries. 政府被指责支持日益衰败的产业。

17 militias   

n.民兵组织，民兵( militia的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The troops will not attempt to disarm the warring militias. 部队并不打算解除战斗中的民兵武装。 来自辞典例句
• The neighborhood was a battleground for Shiite and Sunni militias. 那里曾是什叶派和逊尼派武装分子的战场。 来自互联网

18 coalition   

n.结合体，同盟，结合，联合

参考例句：

• The several parties formed a coalition.这几个政党组成了政治联盟。
• Coalition forces take great care to avoid civilian casualties.联盟军队竭尽全力避免造成平民伤亡。

19 realization   

n.实现；认识到，深刻了解

参考例句：

• We shall gladly lend every effort in our power toward its realization.我们将乐意为它的实现而竭尽全力。
• He came to the realization that he would never make a good teacher.他逐渐认识到自己永远不会成为好老师。

20 foisted   

强迫接受，把…强加于( foist的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• She resented having the child foisted on her while the parents went travelling abroad. 她对孩子的父母出国旅行卻硬要她来照看孩子这事很反感。
• The author discovered that the translator had foisted several passages into his book. 作者发现译者偷偷在他的原著中插入了几段。